UPZ DIN heels on deeluxe boots?

[Kex]

I saw the DIN heel attachment that UPZ has for their boots to allow you to use them as ski boots and thought it was interesting.

I've read that they don't work so well though, because snowboard hardboots are much more flexible than ski boots, which is apparently not what you want while skiing.

from carvers almanac:

UPZ/UPS boots are advertised as hybrid ski/snowboard boots, since they come with optional DIN toe and heel pieces that allow them to be used with ski bindings. However, they do not have sufficient stiffness to work well as ski boots, with one exception - ski patrollers like the softness when working on the hill (that's what you call a specialty within a sub-niche)

http://www.alpinecarving.com/boot_models.html#upz

I was thinking though, what if you used the UPZ heels with a stiffer snowboard boot, e.g. deeluxe indys(plus the stiff tongues if necessary)? Seems like it would work, however there are a few things that might keep it from working, so I thought I would ask here.

First off, do the UPZ DIN heels fit on deeluxe boots? since they replace the heels in the same way intec heels do, my first thought would be yes, however, as I've never seen them in person, I'm not sure if they fit the contour of the boot(could be adjusted?) or attach at an undesirable angle

Second, is the toe ledge on a deeluxe boot large enough to safely slip into a typical ski binding?

Lastly, someone mentioned that the toe area of an UPZ boot is hard plastic, while on deeluxe boots the toe is rubber. I don't see this as a huge issue since the rubber is fairly hard, and it wouldnt be impossible to replace the rubber toe pad with a plastic one, even if I had to self-fabricate it.

Anyway, any opinions on this issue, whether it be the viability of a deeluxe boot in stiffness, something else I mentioned, or something I didn't think of, would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[NateW]

I think my UPZs are stiff enough to be decent ski boots. They are night-and-day stiffer than my Raichle 324s - so much so that I hated them for the first couple runs (but then I got used to them, and now I love them). I haven't tried them on skis yet but I look forward to it.

I suspect the UPZ DIN heels would fit Raichles, because the intec heels are interchangeable. But I have doubts about the Raichle toe ledge mating well with a DIN ski toe piece. Dunno, I guess you'd have to try it to find out. Seems a little iffy to bet your knees on that sort of experiment, but maybe I'm just chicken. :)

[Kex]

I suspect the UPZ DIN heels would fit Raichles, because the intec heels are interchangeable. But I have doubts about the Raichle toe ledge mating well with a DIN ski toe piece. Dunno, I guess you'd have to try it to find out. Seems a little iffy to bet your knees on that sort of experiment, but maybe I'm just chicken. :)

I was thinking of just forgoing the UPZ toe piece, using just the UPZ heels, and using the ledge that is already on the deeluxe boot. I looked at some ski boot pictures and the ledge doesnt seem much different from the indy toe ledge, but I dont know everything about ski boots and dont have a pair handy to compare my boots with to see if the ledge is large enough, the right size, or the right height.

[tex1230]

you need the toe piece to be DIN if you are using bindings like Marker that pressure the toe piece from the side. otherwise, you'll be pre-releasing all the time. Plus SB boots have a grippy sole under the toe where the ski boot toe has smooth plastic over the afd - so either you would release too early from lack of surface area or you would stay in the binding when you should pop out because of the grippy sole - neither is a good idea.

UPZ toes will not fit on deeluxe boots as far as I can tell.

BTW - I found my UPZ way too soft to ski in. (but I'm 220+)

[John H]

The toe ledge of a snowboard boot is not compatible with a ski binding. It is higher and doesn't fit the binding properly. Plus as has been mentioned already , the sole of a ski boot is hard and smooth to facilitate a smooth consistant release from the binding whereas most snowboard boots have a softer ridged sole that would interfere with proper binding function.

[bjvircks]

Hey Kex... Over the summer I could let you borrow my set of UPZ DIN adapters. I was also curious about the heel fitting other hardboots.

However, I'm almost certain that you will not be able to get a satisfactory knock-off DIN toe-piece fabricated to fit other hardboots. The UPZ DIN toe adapter is quite deeply inset to the UPZ boot sole and captured on a small ledge at the front. This is an area you don't want to compromize the boot's structural integrity.

[Kex]

yea, i was pretty much not even going to try putting the upz toe piece on the boots. I figured that the two boots would not have a similar contour in the front. the heel piece may be made to fit a universal contour, but i highly doubt the toe is. I was thinking of getting a block of hard plastic, maybe nylon or something, and shaping it to replace the rubber toe sole of the deeluxe boots.

along with that, I could try making my plastic toe piece thinner, in order to lower the toe ledge(since someone confirmed what I suspected, that the toe ledge is higher on a sb boot).

think making the sole plastic, in order to release properly and lower the ledge would work? is the ledge of a snowboard boot long enough(have enough surface area) to stay in the ski boot?

[ohiomoto]

think making the sole plastic, in order to release properly and lower the ledge would work? is the ledge of a snowboard boot long enough(have enough surface area) to stay in the ski boot?

No and I think you are crazy for trying! :) I would either find a ski boot that I liked well enough to ride in, buy a UPZ, or suck it up like I do and have two boots.

If you modify your boots, plan on mounting and adjusting your own bindings. You will never find a shop willing to touch that set up.

[NateW]

BTW - I found my UPZ way too soft to ski in. (but I'm 220+)

Was that due to too much fore/aft flex, or too much lateral flex? Or both?

[b0ardski]

soft schmoft,

I ski in old Raichle 124 3 buckles often. I use demo bindings which are adjustable for toe highth, this allows the taller toe to seat properly w/out deforming the boot sole wich will happen w/SB boots. I have to hand set the heel binding because of the cutback heel shape.

I want a DIN heel with stepin pins, it's not like it's beyond our technology.:(

That said;

I demoed a couple pair of Icelandic skis last week, in my 124s (they didn't really notice/care) because I didn't have my skiboots at the hill.

1st out the Shaman 160tip/110waist/140tail. fattest skis I've ever ridden. The shaman have alot of sidecut so they're really turny on piste. this truly spotlighted the lack of lateral stiffness in my boots which I love to have on the snowboard. I had a lot of trouble keeping them high on edge in hard carves on steep. I traded them for the Pilgrims which are a more traditional shape 110tip 90waist. this allowed an old skool stance & was noproblem to hold on edge.

Please remember this setup willnot realease properly & I do not push my abilities or terrain without my DIN normal skiboots.

I can ski laceup boots & snowboard in tennis shoes, but the right tool for the job is always better.

p.s. dreamed I was Noboarding the other night.

[bjvircks]

I want a DIN heel with stepin pins, it's not like it's beyond our technology.:(

Me Too... but it looks like I have to make my own. As an off-season project I plan on having a body machined from aluminum and installing parts and pins taken out of a stock intec heel. If it works out I might be on to something... an after market kit!

[Kex]

No and I think you are crazy for trying! :) I would either find a ski boot that I liked well enough to ride in, buy a UPZ, or suck it up like I do and have two boots.

I just like the idea of having a single boot to use and having the best of both worlds. the flexibility and short sole length of a snowboard hardboot, while also being able to use it to ski if I want.

I dont want to spend a ton of money making my boots fit perfectly with getting the shell punched, liners molded perfectly, BTS, etc; and the have to go and buy another boot, get it fitted correctly, etc. And on top of that I would have to bring both sets with me in the car, on the plane, etc. seems like quite a hassle and waste of money. If I could get this to work I would use it.

soft schmoft,

I ski in old Raichle 124 3 buckles often. I use demo bindings which are adjustable for toe highth, this allows the taller toe to seat properly w/out deforming the boot sole wich will happen w/SB boots. I have to hand set the heel binding because of the cutback heel shape.

I want a DIN heel with stepin pins, it's not like it's beyond our technology.:(

so you use a snowboard boot in ski bindings, without any need for modifying the boots? interesting... are bindings that can have the toe height adjusted common?

so with your setup, you could use the upz heels with success and not have to modify the toe sole pad or toe ledge at all?

does what I was talking about, making a custom toe pad from plastic, sound feasible/usable to you?

[tex1230]

Was that due to too much fore/aft flex, or too much lateral flex? Or both?

fore/aft. It was fine for slow skiing around with my son on short runs, but if you got any speed it was a little scary because if you leaned into the shins of the boot to pressure the edge of the ski, it was like there was nothing there.