From SB224s to Head Ski Race boots....wow?

[Steve Prokopiw]

I took mine to SES and used Cateks with them.The Cateks I have decided are too stiff so I was going to try TD3s but the sole length was actually too short even though these are a din sole(size 25)Fin had some other bails for me to try but we never went through with the conversion and I went back to my 324s with intecs after that to make trying demos easier.That said ,I think the Freezones with a slightly more flexible standard binding like f2 or td3s would be the best of both worlds particularly because the din sole is less flexy and more responsive.The rest of the boot is exactly like my 324s in fit and forward/rear flex and they accept bts.Great boot.

[pow4ever]

The Il Moro is a great boot to ski on, if it fits. The Dalbello's have the ability to change flex by changing the tongue and adding/subtracting flex stiffeners. Thats why the flex index is a range. I spent most of my ski past on race boots which had a flex index of 150(really bad on a snowboard!). I found the Krypton Pro's to be softer than what I was used too but they looked like a good idea as a cross over boot. Since I've had them I went from full stiff while skiing (140) to now using them as soft as I can (100) for both skiing and boarding and I'm not finding any problems with them at all for general skiing. The only time I miss the extra stiffness while skiing is on those really icy days when the extra response from a race boot would be nice. So to make a long story short, yes the Il Moro with an 80-110 flex would make a great boot, if it fits. It's not really wide but a good boot fitter can blow out the shell for more space if needed. The other thing is that the Dalbello Thermo liner is very thin compared to what comes in a Deluxe boot. Best thing is to try them at a ski shop to see how they fit and get a size that works for you before ordering online.

Any ski boot will fit into a hard boot binding but many are so stiff that they wouldn't ride well for most people. Ski boots, as mentioned, are stiffer sideways and most lack the needed forward flex.

Thanks John!!!

The store I worked for do carry Dalbello. I will definately tried them on for fit. Just out of curiosity; What would the Head SP snowboard ( Harbboot snowboard boot in general) flex index would be?

It would be nice to have a universal system to based on and do comparsion accrodingly.

--

David

[John H]

Hi David,

Wish I could answer that question but I don't know what the flex index on the Head SP's is. I use Head SP step-ins as my hardboots and the only thing I could tell you is that the forward flex is similar to the Krypton Pro's set up at full soft but the Kryptons are much stiffer laterally. It's a similar forward flex but different. The Kryptons still feel a bit stiffer so if I had to take a guess I'd say the Heads are around 90-110?

John

[BlueB]

Few pics...

As you can see, this is the same shell as Head Stratos...

It has all the nice features: canting, ramping, lean adjuster, carv/walk/ski modes, moldable liner... Very short sole length for a ski boot. Fit is overall wider then Flexon/Krypton and wider on the toes then Raichle SB series.

Carvex/CRX probably can be monkied to accept BTS, but a lot of dremmel work would be involved. Reflex can not take the BTS.

[skategoat]

Where'd you get them and what did you pay? I Googled Dalbello CarveX and CRX and didn't get any online stores.

I had a pair of Line Transfer boots with the same shell and they were comfy. I regret selling them. The only problem I had was with the buckles which would come undone when I flexed the boot.

[BlueB]

FleeBay... Be patient and you'll find them cheap.

CarveX and CRX are discontinued, new model is Reflex, so Google that for online stores. Reflex (the red ones) have slightly different plastic molding around lean/mode adjustor, so it can not be addapted for BTS.

I wish the cuff was just a little bit higher and Vibram soles... It would be a perfect boot.

The only time my buckles get undone is when I EC on skis ;)

[shaunconnor]

does anybody have any experience with the Garmont mega-ride AT boot for carving? I recently picked up a pair for backcountry and wondering how they would do with carving....

i ride with my garmont endorphins in the walk mode ,work ok for me.shaun

[BlueB]

Just finished modifying my spare pair (CarveX, black ones) to have the BTS.

Whow, what a messy job! Lot of routing had to be done at the back of the boot, as the original mechanism is smaller and of different shape then BTS. I did quite a hack job, but it worked. Also did few other mods that are recommended in old treads about Head boots.

Overall result definitelly feels softer and smoother with longer travel. On slope test will be tomorrow!

[BlueB]

Ok, here's the monster!

I did 3 mods:

1) BTS

a) Removed the original lean/flex thing

b) Routed the space bigger for BTS to fit (loooots of routing)

c) Drilled the top pin hole bigger to use the long pin from old Raichles

2) Reshaped the internal "wings" of the inner shell. Didn't want to remove them completely.

a) Cut the connecting web

b) Cut the wings slightly smaller

3) Reshaped the "kidney" hole under the ankle buckle

a) Drill out the rivet holding the buckle and remove

b) Routed the kidney hole longer, for added travel

c) Reinstalled buckle using t-nut

Rode it yesterday on on wet, softer packed snow. 2 boards used, narrower with 60/55 angles, and a wider one with 45/35.

How it rides:

It had noticably more travel. Compared to walk mode, I used often on Dalbellos, the new setup had stiffer start of the flex and softer finish. In the beggining, I didn't like it much with the 60/55 angles - it felt like falling forward instead of loading the nose... Then I realised that I had to preload the springs more, at least on the front foot, and it all came together again. I didn't find it crucial for my style, but it didn't feel wrong either. Still to be tested on hard and really rough conditions.

Then, when I changed the boards, on BXer with 45/35 angles, it really felt great! The board felt livlier, with more feeling, and I was able to do the edge changes way quicker. Switch riding felt better too.

I din't try to ski, but it would be easy to preload the springs even more and get desired stiffnes.

Verdict:

Fianlly a boot nearing perfection - ski and snowboard, adjustable forward flex and nice and stiff sideways. Now, if I could somehow monkey-in some Vibram soles...

Now, before someone said "Yes but ski boots ar so much longer then s/b boots...", just look at the profile pic - on these the DIN blocks actually do not project further then toe/heel boxes. Length, as engraved on the side, is 295. Could someone confirm this number of 26.5 Head Stratos Pro (equivalent shell)?

[tufty]

Heads are longer than the equivalent sized SB series Raichle / Deeluxes (by 12mm at mondo 28.5). Raichle's 26.0-26.5 SB shells are 285mm from toe to heel, I'd certainly expect the same sized Stratos to be around 295mm toe to heel but I'm not sure where the shells change on the Stratos range.

[skategoat]

Boris:

Could I bother you to post some photos of your binding setup? I was trying to set up my F2s for ski boots and don't have enough cant wedges to get into a proper forward lean. I'll have to order some parts but I wanted to compare with your bindings first.

Henry

[Jack M]

Is there anything unsafe about putting snowboard boots in ski bindings? I have a pair of Indys as well so maybe I should try those in my skis before buying new boots.

Snowboard boots don't meet the DIN standards. The rubber soles/pads on snowboard boots are not compatible with ski bindings. UPZ makes DIN soles which are hard plastic and meet DIN standards.

Deeluxe snowboard boots *can* be forced into ski bindings, I do it to ski with my 6 and 3 year old kids. I have to reach down and lift up the lever to latch in, so it's kind of sketchy. However I have released from them appropriately. I wouldn't ski aggressively with them.

The boots that BlueB is posting look like the middle buckle with the solid strap would interfere with forward flex. Also it's placed a little too high. I'd look for boots with a cable middle buckle that goes more over the ankle. The cable eliminates any hard plastic parts colliding when the boot is flexed forward. I believe we generally flex a boot forward a lot more than skiers. And running the cable over the ankle improves heel-hold-down.

I believe this version of the Dalbello Krypton is newer, and has the cable over the ankle:

And then there's the Deeluxe Free-Zone, which *is* the snowboard boot (BTS ready!) with DIN toe/heel:

[b0ardski]

I want the freezones with intec compatability, it shouldn't be that hard:freak3:

[Willow 15]

I am currently looking for a boot to board and ski in, cause my UPZ are torture. I have seen these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RAICHLE-SNOWBLADE-%2F-SKIBOARD-BOOTS:-NEW:-MP-27.0-(UK-8)_W0QQitemZ320346500545QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090304?IMSfp=TL090304128001r23314

Does any one know much about them stiffness ect. and would it take bts. Or am i better off getting Dalbello's or Full Tilt.

[tufty]

I am currently looking for a boot to board and ski in, cause my UPZ are torture. I have seen these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RAICHLE-SNOWBLADE-%2F-SKIBOARD-BOOTS:-NEW:-MP-27.0-(UK-8)_W0QQitemZ320346500545QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090304?IMSfp=TL090304128001r23314

Does any one know much about them stiffness ect. and would it take bts. Or am i better off getting Dalbello's or Full Tilt.

It's an SB-series boot with DIN soles, much like the Free-Zone. Raichle made them for a short period (2001 only if memory serves), I'm not sure which SB-series boot it matches in terms of stiffness. I think I would probably find them *waaaaay* too flexy for skiing in, but I like my ski boots like I like my spirits - hard. Peronally, I'd get a pair of snowboard boots for snowboarding in, and a pair of ski boots for skiing in. My wife, of course, would rather it stayed as that, without the "rando boots for alpine-touring in, and , and, and ....".

[skategoat]

I tried riding today in my Nordica ski boots (90 flex). I think they are Speedmachine 12s or something like that. They fit quite nicely in my F2 medium sized bindings with little overhang.

My first run, I felt like Bambi and keeled over on my first turn. But, I kept trying and was making some decent carving turns by my third run. However, they were not a lot of fun to ride in. It was very difficult to make mid course corrections and little bumps really threw me around. In a word - unforgiving.

I usually press into the cuffs of my boots to shorten the radius of my turns. Efforts to do that in ski boots went nowhere. I basically had to ride out the natural radius of the board. My shins were killing at the end of the day from trying to press forward.

However, I think with a softer boot and maybe some modifications, this could work. I have a pair of Krypton Cross boots that I found for really cheap so I will try them and if they don't work, I can just eBay them.

Coincidentally, I ran into JohnH from BOL on the hill and he suggested toe lift on my front foot. I actually went with heel lift thinking I needed the forward lean. Unfortunately F2s are not made for on-hill cant or lift adjustments so I will have to try the toe lift next time.

I think there is a definite need for a good hybrid boot but talk about a small sub-segment of an already small sub-segment.

[Willow 15]

Peronally, I'd get a pair of snowboard boots for snowboarding in, and a pair of ski boots for skiing in

I would love to but with the weight restrictions on flights and trying to carry skis, ski boots ,powder board, alpine board, hard boots, soft boots, plate and high back bindings and thats just my kit never mind my wife and kids gear it starts gettig very, very expensive. So I am looking for compromises that don't affect performance to much. Thanks for the info on the raichle's tufty, I think they will be to soft for me.

[BlueB]

The boots that BlueB is posting look like the middle buckle with the solid strap would interfere with forward flex.

They are no different to Head Stratos Pro...

I believe this version of the Dalbello Krypton is newer, and has the cable over the ankle:

It fits very narrow (I can't use them). Can't put BTS on it, either.

And then there's the Deeluxe Free-Zone, which *is* the snowboard boot (BTS ready!) with DIN toe/heel

Found them once in a consignment store. They felt like cheap piece of sh*t, just like SB series boots.

[BlueB]

Boris:

Could I bother you to post some photos of your binding setup?

On TD2s:

F- 3deg toe lift, no cant; R- 6deg heel lift, no cant. Suspension kit.

On Snowpros:

All slanted shims used to eliminate built in cant, F and R.

Big 6mm flat shim used as heel lift; Long stud toe pad used as toe lift. I could use a bit more toe lift, but this is all a set of bindigs comes with...

On Race Plates:

Home made shims (cutting board) for toe/heel lift: F 3mm, R 6mm

I'll see about pics later tonight...

[BlueB]

I usually press into the cuffs of my boots to shorten the radius of my turns. Efforts to do that in ski boots went nowhere.

That's interesting. I can kick the snot out of my boards in ski boots, while I always feel flip-floppy in h/boots, at least in SBs, AFs feel more solid.

[Willow 15]

Hey, BlueB can you fit bts tb dalbello crx? Cheers

[BlueB]

CarveX and CRX are the same thing. My post shows the BTS installed. It involves a lot of routing to widen the space for BTS.

Reflex (the red and grey boot, see page one) looks the same, except for the different plastic molding around lean mechanism. I've got these to and I'm not too sure thy could be modified for BTS.

[Willow 15]

Hey BlueB, great heads up on the Dalbello's. Got a pair of CRX from fleabay, paid roughly $55:biggthump. I have put my thermo flex liners in and they feel great. I am just waiting for my BTS to arrive so the full mod can be done. My only concern is in your post you said you used the bigger pins from your Raichle's, do I need to source some bigger pins or will the Dalbello pins work?

[BlueB]

Great catch!

Dalbello liners are pretty good too. Lower part is moldable.

Lower pins will work just fine. Upper ones are thin, so you would have free play in the upper pin-hole on BTS. You can order the Raichle/Deluxe upper pins from Bomber. Alternativelly, find some tubing that would have o/d of BTS hole and i/d of Dalbello's pin, and use as adapter.

Good luck with routing. Go very slowly.

[Willow 15]

Cheers BlueB:biggthump, one final question. What stance width are you using? Looking back I see you don't use cant but do use toe and heel lift. I am 5'10" and use 20" or 21" stance with Catek's and no cant or lift. I was thinking I might have to shorten my stance or start using lift/cant because of the lateral stiffness of ski boots. I know its going to be trial and error with allen keys before I finally get it dialed in, but was interested what stance you are using.