eaglez Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Kinda OT I know, but Arc'teryx clothing is also made in China now...but retailing for the same price as when it was built in BC. Hard for me to swallow that, when I know that their production costs must have dropped significantly. Kind of the same thing for a made-in-China Tanker too, no? We are going to see a strong wave of Patriotism in both Canada and the US regarding buying from companies who do this. You are right. If the manufacturing cost went down, and they keep the same prices or raise them, their profits just skyrocketed. And the worst part is they took jobs away from our continent to do it. The I don't mind paying more for Canadian/US made goods. The problem is that more of us need to hit the companies harder by not buying, and voicing why we are not buying. Bring the manufacturing back to North America. We cannot sustain our economy by only being in the service business. We have to manufacture goods here to stay afloat. These difficult economic times will define how we buy and where the companies manufacture their goods. I can't wait to see the North American companies that build unsafe, non regulated toys in China come back to North America with their tails between their legs and open factories here again, because we are all fed up. D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 We are going to see a strong wave of Patriotism in both Canada and the US regarding buying from companies who do this. I live basically down the street from LLBean. I now have absolutely no qualms about sticking it to them with their 100% satisfaction guarantee if I am not 100% satisfied with a Chinese product, even 2 or 3 years out, like if I paid $100 for a pair of shoes made by communist slaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photodad2001 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I didn't see Winterstick on the list, is it more along the lines of the alpine companies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Brown Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 ... come back to North America with their tails between their legs and open factories here again, because we are all fed up. Yep, OT: Won't happen. The American consumer is wedded to the what I call the "Triple C Ranch" - Cheap Chinese Crap. People just LOVE Walmart, cause of the "low, low, prices" -- why low? It's all made in PRC. You just can't compete with the labor differential... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I didn't see Winterstick on the list, is it more along the lines of the alpine companies? Wagner ski co. is making all new production stuff, so they are patriot ready! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortcutToMoncton Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Wait, seriously, Rad-Air boards are made in China? Since when? greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglez Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Yep, OT:Won't happen. The American consumer is wedded to the what I call the "Triple C Ranch" - Cheap Chinese Crap. People just LOVE Walmart, cause of the "low, low, prices" -- why low? It's all made in PRC. You just can't compete with the labor differential... Yep, except for one thing. When the only people who are making money, work in the downsized offices of major corporations that make nothing in North America, and everyone else is out of work or working at McDonalds, even Walmart won't be able to get prices low enough. Without manufacturing in our countries, no one will have any money to spend. You can't be a country of service businesses and have a healthy economy. And do you know the other reason Walmart has those low low prices? They have the power to squeeze the life out of supplier when it comes to price. I know a few local manufacturing companies that refuse to sell to Walmart because of their pricing requirements. They are in every other retailer but not Walmart. In their opinion, it is better to sell slightly less and hold your margin, than to sell more volume at almost breakeven. Less of manufacturing, expenses, labour, for more money and you don't have to bow to the Hitler-like rules Walmart sets out. F**k Walmart! Heck, that melamine tragedy that killed and hospitalized hundreds or thousands of Chinese babies shows you what kind of lawless third world country we are dealing with. I can't believe that the lemmings that are Americans and Canadians are so stupid to as to tolerate that kind of business model no matter how cheap the goods are. Hope Obama taxes the Sh!t out of any company that has factories outside NAFTA. Might help. Na, a good case of Darwinism is at work here. We need to weed out the dead wood, sense of entitlement and shat work ethic in North America. Sorry for the OT. I'm done now. D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowriter Posted January 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 I didn't see Winterstick on the list, is it more along the lines of the alpine companies? IIRC, Winterstick wasn't distributed last season. Could be wrong. But, I seem to recall no new product going out in 07/08. So, it had another restart this year with Wagner producing the boards and Tom Burt buying in. Again, that's my recollection at 2am... Could be off. There are some other companies that aren't on the list due to either very low market share or because for some other reason they weren't tracked ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 basically you have two or three huge OEM makers in europe/near europe- Pale: cheapest prices available in europe mainland for OEM - Elan - Nidecker ( one factory in Switzerland, one in Tunisia that produces for many many brands ( including salomon that also has its own plant in Romania...) Those three company produce more than 300 000 boards / skis per season ! So yes, Donek, Coiler and Prior are small fish in this world :)... Nils Pale shut down end of 2008 (they were not bankrupt though). Sporten and other tried to buy the equipment but Pale didn't want to sell it to them. You left out some of the very big Austrian ones though - "Keil". Keil - based in Uttendorf/Mittersill, Salzburg Land produces about 100.000 boards per year AFAIK they have about 150 empleyees - mainly produce for Burton (they only do OEM). GST (Austria) must be counted to the biggest snowboard producers worldwide too, as well as B&M. BTW Palmer is produced in Austria by Allaction - Some of the development and the real deal for worldcuppers is made by Kessler as we all know. I think about 10 years ago, 80%, if not more, of worldwide snowboard production was done in Austria, now more and more is moving away. 985.000 boards were produced in Europe in 2004, but I think by now worldwide production is no more than 500.000-600.000 (however that's a wild guess). I wanted to attach a PDF by Boardsports Consulting - Rémi FORSANS that is the source of my figures, but it's filesize is too large. Don't assume that because a company builds skis, they do build boards too. For Head AFAIK that's not the case. According to that document Market shares Europe 05/06: Burton 27% K2 group 12% Quicksilver/Rossi: 11% Salomon: 10% Nitro: 10% Others: 27% And here are the Producers Figures (mind they are for season 04/05): Austria: Oldenburg. for Burton (20.000) - now called Ybbsski or similar, were bankrupt 2 yars ago. Much smaller now. Now produces for Artec/Arbor and others. They were the exclusive producer for all Burton alpine boards AFAIK. Atomic: Atomic, Quecha; 25.000 Allaction: Palmer; 30.000 Elan: Elan, Nitro, Option, Sims, Salomon, Scott, Head 180.000 (AFAIK skis are produced in Slovenia, but all snowboards in Austria). Company is Slovenian. KEIL: Burton; 110.000 GST: Santa Cruz, F2, Forum, Jeenyus, Flow, OEM, 115.000 Pale: Nidecker, Head, Crazy Creek, OEM, 180.000 (stopped production end of 2008 - once they were with GST, Elan, Klein and Rossignol one of the biggest producers worldwide) Spain: Rossignol: Rossignol Hammer, Dynastar, Roxy, Hot; 180.000 Germany: Voelkl: K2, Voelkl, Rad-air, 40.000 (now moved to China - only raceroom skis still produced in Germany) Small factories: Virus: <1000 (just added for completeness): Virus, Alpinepunk - Some of the freeride boards were made by LTB for Virus and were even completely designed by LTB - since a few years LTB does not produce for Frank anymore however, I have heard rumors that Choc also produced/produces for Virus. So if you buy Virus watch out not to pay big money for boards that are available elsewhere for half price..... Pogo: <1000??? (just added for completeness) Jester/Powderequipment: <1000 (just added for completeness) Poland: Nodile: Burton, Fanatic 30.000 Bulgaria: Pamporovo: OEM 25.000 France: Salomon: Salomon - 25.000 Plus some very renowned Shapers for Swallowtails like Kafi. So those French Swallowtail brands are mostly produced in-house. Switzerland: Nidecker: Nidecker - 20.000 Kessler: <1000 (just added for completeness) Radical: <1000 (just added for completeness) - Most of Radical production is outsourced to Choc in Chzeck Republic. Czech Republic: Sporten - ???? Choc: Radical, Choc, Trans, Virus (still outsourced or not anymore?), OEM - ???? LTB: LTB, Virus (not anymore), OEM - a bit below 1000. (just added for completeness) Lusti - OEM <1000. (just added for completeness) Olda - < 1000 (just added for completeness) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Yep, except for one thing. When the only people who are making money, work in the downsized offices of major corporations that make nothing in North America, and everyone else is out of work or working at McDonalds, even Walmart won't be able to get prices low enough. Without manufacturing in our countries, no one will have any money to spend. You can't be a country of service businesses and have a healthy economy. And do you know the other reason Walmart has those low low prices? They have the power to squeeze the life out of supplier when it comes to price. I know a few local manufacturing companies that refuse to sell to Walmart because of their pricing requirements. They are in every other retailer but not Walmart. In their opinion, it is better to sell slightly less and hold your margin, than to sell more volume at almost breakeven. Less of manufacturing, expenses, labour, for more money and you don't have to bow to the Hitler-like rules Walmart sets out. F**k Walmart!Heck, that melamine tragedy that killed and hospitalized hundreds or thousands of Chinese babies shows you what kind of lawless third world country we are dealing with. I can't believe that the lemmings that are Americans and Canadians are so stupid to as to tolerate that kind of business model no matter how cheap the goods are. Hope Obama taxes the Sh!t out of any company that has factories outside NAFTA. Might help. Na, a good case of Darwinism is at work here. We need to weed out the dead wood, sense of entitlement and shat work ethic in North America. Sorry for the OT. I'm done now. D. Don't want to turn this into a political forum but I'm afraid Obama is no different than most of the rest of the politicians. He has a vision of one world government as do his masters, the Trilateral Commission and the Commission on Foreign Relations, etc. The New World Order didn't disappear with the Bush administration and won't with the next...I wouldn't count on Obama to save us from the erosion of our manufacturing base. He, like the rest of his kind (politicians) are the enemy of freedom and independence... Again, sorry...Let's get back to talking snowboards :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Civ Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 also, there are limited restrictions the USA can really put on China and thier goods. The US owes China more $ than anyone can even comprehend. If China want to sell all their cheap **** over here, there is little Obama will be able to do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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