RCrobar Posted December 29, 2008 Report Share Posted December 29, 2008 Not to mention a spring rattling like a spur as you walk around. Hehe I love this sound, but I have noticed that it is very hard to sneak up on my wife!:D Also, (just my opinion) to get a move linear feel from the set-up you would not want the "dead zone" or no feeling from the BTS when the spring was not yet engaged as you took up the slack. You see preload in most compression spring application for just these reasons: a cars struts and engine valve springs for example. Preload makes the spring linear and predictable. Interesting. The variable that has not been mentioned with regards to a linear feel is the resistance created by the boot tongue. The springs, boot tongue and the control over your calf muscle are the only reasons that I can think of for not feeling a dead zone. Thanks for your thoughts Fin, JP1. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zone Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Can the BTS springs fit on the Northwave system in term of diameter (with some cutting of course)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCrobar Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Hey DrZone Can the BTS springs fit on the Northwave system in term of diameter (with some cutting of course)? I think the BTS springs will work in the Northwave housing, better check this with Fin to be sure. A few years ago, pre-Fin’s BTS, I found a Canadian spring distributor that had the Imperial version of the Northwave (Metric) springs; buying the Imperial version of the flat wire springs was quite a bit cheaper than the metric in the same size. The outside (OD) and (ID) inside diameter of the springs I am using in the Northwaves is very close to OD 5/8” and ID 3/8”. Maybe Dave and Andrea at YYZCANUCK.com sell the BTS and springs in Canada? Hope this helps:) Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian M Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 I'm getting my BTS after Christmas for my new Track 700's - can't wait to get them on. Those boots will feel so much better with a bit of give to them, and now I know how to set them up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdifan_2003 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Great thread idea Bobby! We do get some questions on the BTS now and then so maybe we can get them answered here.Set-up: One thing we recommend is to mark on your boots the "home" position you currently like BEFORE you remove the stock locking mechanism. I usually do this with a Sharpie pen on the lower part of boot and draw a line along the line of the upper cuff. Then install the BTS and move the Nuts up and down until you have the Cuff lined up with this mark. Now at least you are starting at the same spot as the stock set-up. Two rules on the Nuts: 1) move them BOTH up and down to effect forward lean position B) move the Nuts TOWARDS or AWAY from each other to effect preload Preload = the amount the spring is loaded in its static position Preload is good and we recommend have at least a small amount to have tension on the Nuts at all time. If you have so much pre-load as the springs are almost compressed to a solid then you need to move up to the stiffer spring. You guys are correct, the Forward lean position WILL change as you mover one of the nuts. But keep in mind the springs are apposing each other but they are at very different spring rates. So if you move the Top Nut down say 1/2" (12.7mm for our Euro friends) then the lower spring may only compress 1/4" (6.35mm). This happens because the lower Spring (heel side) is approximately twice (if the same color) the stiffness as the top spring (toe side). This effect is compounded when you mix colored springs. Absolutely not a big deal but you do need to be aware of this. Kjl: not totally correct. A Blue(top)/Yellow(bottom) will NOT feel the same as a Yellow(top)/ Blue(bottom). When you are actually in the turn and compressing one or the other spring the not compressed spring is no longer in in effect after it goes to free length. KingCrimson: Once you remove the Top Nuts the top spring will just slip off the shaft. However, to remove the lower spring you do need to remove the Top Pin that holds the Upper Case into the boot. Let me know if you still have an issue with it. Below is a diagram of the BTS to help understand what is going on with it. Sometimes it is hard to see what is going on especially if you have the same color springs, they look like on big long spring! There is a divider in the Upper Case. OK, a have a question (Fin - could you pitch in :)). Is the shaft supposed to be fixed to the lower part of the BTS. In other words, should it be able to turn freely within the lower part of the BTS, not the lower nut? I am wondering, if I tun it in (the shaft starts sticking from bellow, an I going to affect the forward lean. Ultimately, I am trying to make the boot with less forward lean. I never tried it without the BTS, so I don't know where exactly "my neutral" position is. So, let's say, the shaft is even with the lower part. If I move the lower nut up, together with the upper nut - this will INCREASE the forward lean, right. By now, I am completely confused . Gurus, please help . Thanks, Millen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csquared Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 So, let's say, the shaft is even with the lower part. If I move the lower nut up, together with the upper nut - this will INCREASE the forward lean, right. By now, I am completely confused . Gurus, please help . Thanks, Millen Yes, you have the adjustment correct. And I believe that adjusting both nuts equally preserves the pre-load since the springs equalize. If you move both nuts down the shaft, the boot cuff leans back more. I'm a tdi fan too (09 Jetta Sportwagen). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdifan_2003 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Yes, you have the adjustment correct. And I believe that adjusting both nuts equally preserves the pre-load since the springs equalize. If you move both nuts down the shaft, the boot cuff leans back more. I'm a tdi fan too (09 Jetta Sportwagen). Cool, diesel rocks. 40+ mpg, driving 70-80 mph - can't beat that. Back to the subject. Got the nuts part. How about the whole shaft? Basically, if I turned down, so it starts sticking from below, this will make the "working" part of the shaft "shorter", right? Is this going to affect the forward lean at all? My whole goal is to put the boot more upright, with minimum forward lean. Thanks! Millen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 tdifan_2003,Do you have the Installation Sheet that came with the BTS ? If so check it out, it's informative. From your descriptioin this is what I believe to be your issue. The 'Main Shaft' is not designed to turn. It is only threaded into the 'Lower Bracket' as a means of assembly. If the 'Main Shaft' is turning, you need to remove it from the 'Lower Bracket', clean it, put a drop of Thread Locker on it and re-install it into the 'Lower Bracket' so it does not turn under normal use. If you goal is to have the minimum forward lean, then the "Bottom Tension Nut" will need to be all the way down to the "Lower Bracket". csquared wrote, " And I believe that adjusting both nuts equally preserves the pre-load since the springs equalize". Not True, unless you are swapping different color springs. If you have the 'same color' springs, the spring rates are close to double on the bottom spring as is the top spring. Example: Blue "Long" Spring = 144 lbs/in, Blue "Short" Spring = 320 lbs/in, slightly more than double, so they will not equalize. I'm guessing when you said 'preload' you may have meant 'forward lean'? IF so, and you want to keep the "Forward Lean" the same, you would have to put (2) times as many turns on the top spring as you put on the bottom spring (because the spring rate on the bottom spring is twice that of the top). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdifan_2003 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 tdifan_2003,Do you have the Installation Sheet that came with the BTS ? If so check it out, it's informative. From your descriptioin this is what I believe to be your issue. The 'Main Shaft' is not designed to turn. It is only threaded into the 'Lower Bracket' as a means of assembly. If the 'Main Shaft' is turning, you need to remove it from the 'Lower Bracket', clean it, put a drop of Thread Locker on it and re-install it into the 'Lower Bracket' so it does not turn under normal use. If you goal is to have the minimum forward lean, then the "Bottom Tension Nut" will need to be all the way down to the "Lower Bracket". csquared wrote, " And I believe that adjusting both nuts equally preserves the pre-load since the springs equalize". Not True, unless you are swapping different color springs. If you have the 'same color' springs, the spring rates are close to double on the bottom spring as is the top spring. Example: Blue "Long" Spring = 144 lbs/in, Blue "Short" Spring = 320 lbs/in, slightly more than double, so they will not equalize. I'm guessing when you said 'preload' you may have meant 'forward lean'? IF so, and you want to keep the "Forward Lean" the same, you would have to put (2) times as many turns on the top spring as you put on the bottom spring (because the spring rate on the bottom spring is twice that of the top). JP, thanks! First off, sure, I do read manuals. The reason for asking was, I still was confused. Not a biggy, right . This is exactly whta I needed. I will put some red loctite on both. I am also just curious - what if I need more straight boot than the current lower-nut-at-maximum-down is allowing me . Millen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 tdifan_2003, no biggie & I wasn't trying to be a hardazz, just wondered if you had the information . " I am also just curious - what if I need more straight boot than the current lower-nut-at-maximum-down is allowing me " Personally, what I would do would be to find a shorter (length) spring. Keeping in mind the actual spring rate that you have decided upon. Since I don't think Bomber offers different lengths other than the 1.5" and the 3", you could get them from MSC, McMaster Carr or any other supply companys that offer (Die Springs / compression) but close pay attention to the spring rates. The Springs Dimensions: ID is .375" and the OD is .750", you'll need to determine the length you need ( I'm guessing around 1.25") and match the wire diameter (thickness) to end up with a spring rate close to what you desire. OR, Another possibility ( I don't know your set up, but if you are using the Blue or Red bottom spring) would be to go to the Yellow Bottom Spring. Since it is substantially softer in 'Spring Rate', you'll be able to compress it easier, thus allowing the boot to be in a more upright position. What boots are they mounted on ? Sounds like they may have been mounted on a boot they were not designed for ( like I did, Head Stratos) and the top hole location is too low ? If so that may be another option, locating a different mounting hole (higher) for the "Upper Case". Remember, you can only go so far back (straight up) on the forward lean until the Gap between the Cuff and the Shell is closed (or the spring is 'coil bound') at that point you have effectively 'lost' all ability of the BTS Sytem to function as designed. Hope something here helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdifan_2003 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Thanks JP. No offence taken . I have Track 325, so it's OK. Interesting idea to get softer small spring. On the other hand I was thinking to go to stiffer (red) big spring. Currently I have all blue springs. I guess, I'll have to talk to Fin about that :). SO long, Millen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csquared Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 JP - what I meant was that if you are turning both nuts in the same direction by the same amount the pre-load does not change because the distance between the nuts remains the same (the springs are not experiencing any additional compression). The boot cuff connector (the piece with 'BTS' engraved into it) moves along with the nuts up and down the threaded tower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 I removed the lower nut so the spring rests on the lower casing and it gave me a more upright foward lean I was looking for:1luvu: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.