Canadian Nationals BX very disappointing

[Guest Boardbum]

I was lucky enough to go and see our National Championship for BX at Cypress. The course by all accounts was reported to be one of the best the riders have seen all season including WC's. Unfortunately the weather played a role in what in MY OPINION were some bad decisions made by CSF. I understand that they want to complete the event, but what they forgot, is that they are suppose to be representing and developing the ATHLETES. These athletes spend there own money, or mom and dad's to do something they love doing. It seemed obvious that they only seem to be concerned about the National Team rather than thinking ahead past 2010 for the up and comers who need the experience. For those of you who are wondering what happened.

1) They were given one qualifying run. Fine, but all these athlete's thought going in that they were vying for top 32 men and top 16 women at start for finals, only to find out as they were making there way to the hill for the finals that CSF decided to cut the men and women in half to complete the event. I'm sure if they new that going in that there qualifying runs would have had been all or nothing additude.

2) Junior Championship? don't even post it, thats a JOKE!

3) If CSF is using this as a test for the Olympics, and they have anything to do with running it, they better get there Sh----t together.

Some suggestions: do it over two days or make the field smaller by making the Provinces put higher standards on the Athletes that come to the Nationals, there were some kids that were there, that should not have been at this event.

[Guest barelylegal]

To hold the event in April, is plain dumb. If this is the venue for the Olympics perhaps it would make more sense to hold the event closer to the date it will be held in 2010 so that all are familiar with the conditions at the relevant time of the year. To call this the Nationals this year is a joke. I too understand the change to one qualifying run due to fog etc., but to decide to reduce the heats to top 16 AFTER qualifying is amateur hour and only suggests that the CSF only cares about the National Team members and not the new guard. Nice to see Pierce Smith made the top 16, but I do feel sorry for all of those in 17-32 who may have taken a little off believing top 32 was all they needed to do. Especially so when they only have 1 Q run. There needs to be some real changes made at CSF because some of the decisions that have been made over the past few years have really been questionable and I'm being kind when I say that.

[Guest Boardbum]

Lets not forget about the woman, they could have very easily left them at 16. As for getting use to for-fitting the Junior Nationals, no way thats the kind of thinking that we don't need. Do it right or don't bother ranking the kids at all, thats what the fis points are for.

[philfell]

Making a feild size cut that is different than the published program is a jury decision, not one made by CSF. I wasn't there so I can not comment on the reasons why the feild was limited after the qualifing runs. My best guess is that the weather sucked and qualifing too longer than expected so they were short on time and had to do what they had to do in order to get the event done. This was probably made worse by slow chair turn around. Anther thing that could have happend was that the weather was bad and it was looking like it was going to get worse so in the interest of safty and time they cut the field size. Or the snow was not holding up well, so in the interest of safty field size was cut in order to have less wear on the track.

Like I said I wasn't there so I only can make guesses. Regarless of the reason it isn't CSF's call it is the race jury. It's easy to stand on the sidelines and complain, but coming from someone who is involved in putting on events and is at a ton of events throught the season things usually happen for a legit reason. Look at things this way the, if they left the program the same (2 run qualifier, 32 men/16 ladies) and the weather caused them not to finish that day they would have to start all over the next day. NOT from where they left off, but all over. This would cost a ton of extra money and hassle for everybody, and resorts don't like closing trails for extra days either. If this happened I'm pretty sure you would still be upset at the mistakes "CSF" made by not switching to a one run qualifier, or by having the full field go to finals...........

Keep in mind that one run qualifiers are still pretty standard in SBX, they have been doing two runs in World Cups for a couple of seasons, but qualifiers and finals are usually one different days. Organizers have a very tight time frame to pull of two qualifing runs and finals in one day, things have to go real smooth to make it happen, if there are delays the program needs to be adjusted.

Boardbum, it's great that you care about the sport, we need more people like you. But I suggest that you start to get involved with organizing events and take action with CSF to make things go more like the vision you have for the sport, not just complaining on the internet. There are many ways to become involved.

[BlueB]

Extending the event to Sunday was not an option - we rode the powerdboards whole day. Visibillity was very low too.

[Guest Boardbum]

I'm trying to reply on this thread with no luck

[Guest Boardbum]

Try again I have been involved in both snowboarding and skiing for the past 20 years. I appreciate your comments, which mine are meant to be. Your right that it is a jury call. I'm just thinking of the racers that thought they had qualified only to find out they didn't because they changed the rules in the middle of the race. This would not happen in ski racing.

[Guest Boardbum]

That try again was not replying to you I had a long winded answer to yours but after four try's and all different versions for some reason I could not post them. I shouldn't have centered out CSF, there "some" great people there.

[Guest Boardbum]

My whole point is that I don't think there was any thought given to the development of the athletes and up and comers, and this is what it should be all about.

[SuperBee]

Still I can't find the results 4 days after the race. I'm just curious about the results ?

[philfell]

National Championships and Nor-Am level events are not development events. Thought at these events should be given to those who are pushing for World Cup spots and National titles. FIS events are more for development, sadly North America does need to step it up in this aspect.

Like I said day of race changes to the program are usually made for a legitimate reason. If the TD, cheif of comp, and finish ref. thought the event was better of to run as per the original program explained at the coaches meeting the night before they would have left things alone. But for some reason they thought it would only be possible to get the event off if they made changes.

You are right this would not have happened in ski racing. Things would have stayed the way the original program stated. They would have ran out of time, had to restart the next day, only to find out the weather was worse and the race would have never gotten off. There is a reason why so many ski races on the FIS schedule don't end up getting scored, and it is extremely rare that a FIS snowboard event gets thrown out.

[philfell]

No rules were changed in the middle of the event.

It sounds like there was a format change though. These are two different things.

[jhcolman]

Boardbum:

A perspective.

My son is on the Ontario Snowboard Club (Alpine)Team. This was his first year racing FIS, having just turned FIS age. In preparation for the step up, he (and all FIS age members of the Team) raced Open Mens at all Provincial events. They did not race Junior, even though the Open Mens category starts at age 18. They were not concerned about qualifying; they just needed to gain the experience of competing in a FIS like Opens Mens category, seeing how they ranked and hopefully gaining position over time.

Their attitude was the same at FIS races. They knew that only the top Ontario Team members had a shot at qualifying, which at just about every FIS race I've seen is the top 16 for men and top 8 for women.

They knew that the competition would be even stiffer at the PGS/PSL Nationals, given the attendance of the National A and B (development) Teams of both countries. Our Ontario Team was delighted to have this opportunity to train and compete with the National Team members, and to chat with and learn from them. A number of the Canadian National Team members are our good friends and former teammates. Our Team knew that the National Team members (A and B) would likely take all of the qualifying spots. So be it. It was just fantastic for them to be there. They had a blast; no complaints.

And (to crow abit about our Team); one of our members actually took a 20th spot (on one run) against the best in North America; and he is only 17!

The point that I am making is that I'm sure you had an awesome time and learned alot. To be there competing with the worlds best, as they prepare for 2010, must have been awesome. Focus on that, rather than qualifying (or not).

As for qualifying 32 vs 16, it would have been most unusual for a FIS race to qualify 32 racers. That's a pretty huge field to put through heats. And if they did, the next knock out round would have narrowed the field to 16 anyway. More over, the event is a NORAM National. It should, by definition, be difficult to qualify.

Life in the competitive world.

I think you need to see your glass half full, not half empty.

Cheers

Julian

[philfell]

Taking 32 in SBX is pretty common, they take 16 in PGS.

[philfell]

OK so I just looked at the results and noticed that Tom Winters was the FIS TD. Tom is in charge of ALL US TD's and is on the FIS rules committee, he also has more TD experience than just about anyone and has been involved in organizing and hosting snowboard events since the late 80's, so I feel confident that everythings was done for a legitmit reason. Remember the AST tour and before that the APSS??? Tom helped run those.

[Rob Stevens]

Weather having an effect on a Lower Mainland event?

That's a surprise...

[Chrissrad]

Although Philfel was not at the event, his assessment of the conditions that forced the jury to make a decision to modify the format due to inclement weather is bang-on! no wonder he is a snowboard TD.

...add in an hour delay during the women's Q due to fog, add in 110 registered participants to allow more "competive opportunities" (to run a good SBX, you need MAX 80 participants), add in an 8 am start for all men athletes, add in a 110s top Q time for men and over 140s slowest Q time for women, add in a head wind down the flats and new snow "pellets" slowing down speed and ya got yarself a complicated day. I had a chance to speak at length with the TD about options & solutions to make sure the event ran, got scored and basically happened. Running it on Sunday was simply NOT an option. Given the circumstances and looking back, in hindsight, the decision made was the best decision possible, even if it sucks that riders 17 to 32 and 9 to 16 did not get a chance to knock-out top riders for a spot on the podium. I have been there and know the pain all too well.

Boardbum, did you volunteer at the event? did you pick up a shovel to clear the 20cm's of snow that fell during the many course holds (injury, weather, wind, etc...), did you pick up a bottle of blue dye to paint the course when the light was flat and fog was thick? where you up at 5am to be there at 6am to help set the course? Did you get trained as an event official? are you willing to help out at the next event? The CSF cannot afford to "hire more staff", but it needs hands to run events for athletes. Your suggestions to do it over two days and asking Provinces and the CSF to put higher standards of ability to attend the Nationals are very good. I will pass them on. I too saw a few-too-many athletes competing there that clearly should not have been.

Season is over, but the busy times are just beginning at the CSF.

PS: Cypress, BCSA, CSF, VANOC and the FIS will host the pre-Olympic World Cup next February, who wants to help out - and get valuable training to be on deck in 2010?

[bobdea]

Try again I have been involved in both snowboarding and skiing for the past 20 years. I appreciate your comments, which mine are meant to be. Your right that it is a jury call. I'm just thinking of the racers that thought they had qualified only to find out they didn't because they changed the rules in the middle of the race. This would not happen in ski racing.

I have seen it happen in both SL and GS comps for skiers not FIS events or anything but with races that were college kids (that some went on to be world cup level racers)

as someone who's worked for resorts I know first hand how much pressure we put on the people who organize events and it amazing that there are any considering how PITA they are for everyone unless they are a big money event that pays off well.

I have been in the room when a someone from the resort has said a big emphatic NO to people running a race requesting a extra couple hours.

My point is that while some contests get royally screwed up, usually it has more to do with time/space/money constraints than not caring about development of riders or skiers.