New member's plea for equipment advice

[Guest echris]

Hey all, nice to finally find this place. I've been looking

for you all for at least 4 years.

I've gone over the info on this site and am sure I want

to get carving eqpt.

Here is a longish story, I want you to hear it so you

can give me good advice.

Background:

Long time skiier, lost interest in it about 15 years ago.

Boots hurt lots, bruised shins, not having fun with long

drives and the crappy snow here in the nw.

Don't usually have fun without adrenalin, and was starting

to do stupid stuff. Stopped skiing.

7 years ago a friend got injured playing soccer and gave me

his board. I gave it a go since it was free (I used my sorels),

and I've had an amazing fun time ever since trying to figure

out how this snowboard thing works.

Pretty much since the first day on the board I've really

focused on pure carved turns and trying to ski bumps.

I'm really having fun trying to figure out how that can

work, and loving how a snowboard can make awful snow fun,

and powder better than even on skis.

Finally invested in regular snowboard boots 3 years ago,

they cut down lots on the pain (it was getting intolerable

bone grinding pain) but I do lose some control since the

boots dont really fit.

My technique is not where I want it to be, but I'm

getting better, and pretty much the most excellent thing

for me is 4-5 linked turns in steep (soft) moguls. I love

committing to the fall line on a snowboard. I never do jumps

except for the big cruiser kind where youre 1 foot above the

ground for 30 feet.

I am Sort of out on a limb since i dont know anyone who

is at all on the same frequency as me, and I'd never seen

another snowboarder carve turns. I've badgered lift-mates

about snowboarding technique and they've so far all been

clueless. I'm starting to think my equipment is holding me

back, the board just isn't torsionally stiff enough for me

so I'm fighting it on hard turns or in the steep and it

folds up and gets very unstable at even moderate speeds.

On wednesday, for the first time, I saw a snowboarder doing

what I'd always imagined was possible, fast turns edge to edge

and stable smooth carving through the bumps. Right away, like

"Holy ****!" thats my goal.

Stalked him at the top of the lift and up close his

gear is totally different. He pointed me here. I'm

psyched.

So... I need advice.

Living in Seattle.

Boots: I've got size 12-12.5 feet, but my instep

(arch) is like a size 14 foot. Distance from heel to

top of foot is giant, so the boot will need to open

wide to admit my foot. Pretty much impossible to get

my feet into most ski boots that are < 14. Where do I

go to get boots? For skiing I have some Nordica race

boots from 1985, they occationally draw blood when I

put them on. I've been to chain ski stores and there is

simply nothing that fits. Where do I go to get a

hardshell snowboard boot that fits?

Board: My goal is to still have a great time in all the crappy

mixed conditions we see here in the nw. If its Icy I can use

my skiis if thats necessary. I want to carve bumps, thats

my goal. Also looking for smooth fast carved turns when I'm

stuck on the flats, (or it I was to go back to sun valley.)

I'm 6'1", 200 pounds.

I'm a cheap bastard, but I'm serious about this in a way that

is rare for me, so could be convinced to buy retail. Gotta

be soon since this is a great season. My strange feet are

an issue, so I'm pretty sure that mail-order is out.

I want good solid gear that will grow with me, with focus on

bumps. And need someone to help me get my stance right on the

board.

Thanks.

[Jack M]

There are articles in the links below that will help get you going. Sorry if you've already seen them.

The FIRST THING before you buy any alpine equipment, is to get some carves happening on your soft gear. Head down to the green circles, practice The Norm, and see if you can initiate carves on the downhill edge. Once you can do that, then you're ready for the equipment change. But no sooner.

[Guest echris]

I read the articles. Yes, I'm fully carving on my soft gear. I'm initiating turns with downhill edge.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[tex1230]

Dan Yoja is in your area - he is the distributor for UPZ boots - those are widely acknowledged to be the widest of the available boot choices. Head Stratos are also relatively wide. Talk to Dan (http://www.upzboots.com/) and then take the boots to an expert bootfitter. Spend the money on good boots and expert fitting. I believe that is the single most important thing you can do. If your feet hurt, your day will suck.

There are a lot of carvers in your area. I'm sure one of them will be willing to step in here and reccomend a good bootfitter.

For skiing I have some Nordica race

boots from 1985, they occationally draw blood when I

put them on.

{shudder}

[Jack M]

I read the articles. Yes, I'm fully carving on my soft gear. I'm initiating turns with downhill edge.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Sorry, I didn't catch that. So you can carve and make lines like this?

Even if it's only on the greens, that's fine. (actually hard to do anywhere else on softies)

[Guest echris]

Sorry, I didn't catch that. So you can carve and make lines like this?

Even if it's only on the greens, that's fine. (actually hard to do anywhere else on softies)

Yeah! I can totally do that, and I love it to death. I love committing early on steep slopes too but my board gets wiggly and bad if I go too fast, it folds in the middle like the camber is overpowering the board. The guy that gave me the board was 140 pounds, so I'm sure it isn't stiff enough. I can snowboard just about anything that I can ski, but its painful to be too aggressive because of the boots/bindings. I'm thinking these carving boards have solved that.

I assume that there's folks that can happily ski bumps on one of these boards, right?

Tex1230: Thanks for the local Dan Yoja contact. Note my feet are just a little wide, but my insep is stupidly huge, prevents my foot from entering the top of the boot. I need to try the boots before I buy them. The snowboard boots have become more and more painful as I've become more aggresive. Now I can't get the bindings tight enough to stop my feet from slopping around in my boots and they still hurt quite a bit.

[Galen]

You'll have a tough time getting boots without going mail order/ebay, etc.. Bomber has a great return policy, you can try them(livingroom only!) and send them back if they dont fit. They have a good "guidlines" for getting you size right. Either way, you will almost certainly have to get them fitted/modified by a boot fitter if you feet are a bit unusual. If you get your gear together before early March, consider going to OES:http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=16635

Good people, good vibes and riders of all abilities.

[Art]

Show up at Crystal on the 25th for a little carvsesh.

[Galen]

carvsesh.

This one needs to be entered in wikipedia!:lol:

[Guest echris]

Ok, more specific questions:

I'm 6'1", 195-200 pounds. Goal is to ski bumps in the crap snow we usually have here, but don't rule out going fast.

What length's appropriate?

What kinda sidecut?

Assuming I get some boots new, will all bindings work? I figure I'm after adjustability and a tight connection. What do I get?

Can I hear some recommendations?

I need this info so I can post in the wanted forum. What do I ask for?

Thanks.

[NateW]

That was me at the top of Central Express on Wednesday, I'm glad you found the site. :)

I am riding UPZ RTR boots now, but I also have a pair of Raichle 324s (from the same molds as today's Deeluxe 325 and 225) and the Raichle / Deeluxe boots have more room over the instep/ankle so they would probably be a better choice for your feet. I'd let you try mine, but they're 3-4 sizes too small.

The Raichles are also a lot softer, and they open up very easily, and it sounds like that will be to your advantage. When the buckles are open, the tongue swings out of the way and the sides of the boot open right up. My UPZs fit my feet great but it takes some real effort to get them on and off.

Boot fitters can do a lot to make boots fit weird feet. It can add $100 or more to the price of the boots, but they've got all sorts of tools for stretching and/or grinding the boot shells to make more space, or adding material to take up extra volume. I go to World Cup Skier Service in Bellevue, but there are other shops that do this stuff (Sturtevant's in Bellevue, Alpine Hut in Redmond, etc).

Jack wrote a good article about board characteristics:

http://www.bomberonline.com//articles/how_to_buy_snowboard.cfm

You'll probably be best off with an "all mountain" board, they're a little wider than race boards (21-23cm, vs 18-20cm) which should be a good match for your big feet. Flex and sidecut are moderate (sidecut radius usually in the 10-12 meter range), which should be fine until/unless you decide you want something different. Keep an eye out for:

Prior ATV, 4X4, 4WD, AWD

Donek Axxess

Coiler AM

Others that I'm forgetting

You're likely to see good deals on regular race boards from a couple years ago though, and it wouldn't hurt to pick one up. Or two. If you don't like them, you can put them back into circulation and only take a small loss. I'm the 3rd owner of the Donek FC 180 I was riding on Wednesday, and I recently noticed a Donek Axxess on the for-sale forum that's changed hands twice already this season. :)

I don't think length is critical at all. I never thought I'd be riding a 180 every day but it works fine everywhere, even on that face under the Central Express chair. But if you really like bumps, shorter (160-170) might be better. Sidecut should ideally correspond to how fast you like to ride. A tight sidecut is easy at low speeds, but doesn't carve well at high speeds, a 15m sidecut is awkward a low speeds but shines when you're going really fast. I've got boards with sidecuts from 10-15 meters and for me the sweet spot is right in the middle. Softboot boards are usually 8-9 meters. It's worth looking up the specs on your current board just as a point of reference.

There's two types of binding systems: Intec step-ins (what I use) and the traditional type which use a level over the toe of the boot to latch you in. Intecs cost a little more but the convenience is nice. Most hard-shell snowboard boots made in the last several years are compatible with both systems, but the Intec system requires heel pieces that cost extra (and I hear they're out of stock everywhere right now?). Most bindings are also available in both styles.

If you've had many board, boot, or binding failures in the past, I strongly suggest Bomber or Catek hard boot bindings. They are the only brands that I don't worry about. If you haven't broken much gear, then you have more options.

When you find some boots, I have some toe-lever Bombers and Cateks that I'll part with for a very fair price. I also have a couple boards that you can try out for a few runs.

[NateW]

The snowboard boots have become more and more painful as I've become more aggresive. Now I can't get the bindings tight enough to stop my feet from slopping around in my boots and they still hurt quite a bit.

That right there is the main reason I switched from soft boots to hard boots.

[Guest echris]

Thanks all, especially Nate for introducing me to this.

Anyway, I'll need to mail order as there's nothing local. Thanks Nate for your very helpful guidance, youre opining on what I exactly need to know. Indeed the problem is often getting my foot into the boot.

Centerline in bellevue was recommended by some skiiers, I visited today and he asked that I bring boots in for him to check. The guy that helped me there has size 11 feet with a 14 instep, worse even than my foot, I think they'll be helpful once I get some boots. Price is steep: $175 for orthotics and fitting.

Kinda confused now why this sport isn't supported by the local shops. All my nose in the air skiiers talk down about snowboarding, but I mention carving boards and they all light up, consistantly: "Yeah! That looks cool, I'd love to try that - its beautiful." I guess this equipment's been around for years, isn't reaching critical mass? Even centerline, which I've heard grumbles if you bring a board in for tuning was positive about alpine boards "There was this one guy I saw at Sun Valley who could carve beautiful 360 turns..."

Cheers ALL!

[Art]

Echris, email me with some contact info, Ill talk to you if you want and Nate has filled you in a bit too. The reason shops dont carry Alpine is it does not sell consistantly. Too much inventory to carry, too little movement on the shelves. That said, I believe there is a segment of the adult skiing population who would like to try snowboarding

(they either have kids that board or are bored with skis), are not interrested in jibbing, like speed 'cause they have been on skis for several years, but dont have access to equipment. I have an in with a popular local shop, but they are unwilling to carry alpine (half the problem is the staff has no idea what it is). I would love to put up a board and hang it on the store wall with information about BOL, but then there can be that pesky liability issue. Give me a shout, I might be at the pass next friday if the road is open, and will have skis and a board. Welcom, I look forward to riding with you.