Coiler All Mountain setback

[Terryw]

I have been trying to find my sweet spot on my new Titanal 177 AM. Per Bruces instructions I started out with the middle inserts. He said if I had any trouble initiating turns to start moving them foward. Well I have been out three times so far this season and have shifted my bindings foward each time. Every time I do this it gets a little easier to turn. I have ended up with my front bindings just about all the way foward.

I was worried that I might be too far foward for the board, so I finally got out the tape measure to see just what my setback was. I was surprised to find that even as far foward as I was set, with my 19.5" stance width, I was still about 1/4" setback.

I am curious to see where other Coiler AM riders ended up with setback.

The typical conditons I ride in are mostly man made hardpack that passes for snow here in sunny so cal. Even though it feels a little better to me with minimal setback, should I try to get comfortable with more setback?

[eaglez]

Hey Terry, when I read the title of your post, I expected to hear about a setback in getting, ordering, riding, adoring, loving, your new Coiler. And we all hope we don't hear something bad like that. :D

D.

[D-Sub]

Even though it feels a little better to me with minimal setback, should I try to get comfortable with more setback?

I prefer my carving boards to be as centered as possible. I think the reason setback is built in is to counter getting too far forward. Weight needs to get "back" sometimes, too...

if you're comfortable riding centered ie "forward" why would you think you need to change?

I used jack's "find the sidecut and center over that" method on most boards.

[Mike T]

I ride my standard construction 172/12m centered on the inserts. The Titanal version, I ride somewhat back from centered on the inserts... my deck was a prototype that Bruce rode before I did, and he marked what he found to be the sweet spot before sending it to me. I fiddled a bit and found that using the stance that Bruce had marked was the way to go.

On the Titanal version, I find that I can project my weight aggressively downhill from the more setback position and the edge grip is incredible especially on early-morning PNW springtime ice. With the bindings centered on the inserts the edge grip wasn't as good.

I would not be surprised if Bruce decided to locate the inserts farther back on the Titanal versions than on the standard versions, as a result of his test rides. If you want to know for sure please ask him - I'm only hypothesizing. All I know is that on every *non-prototype* Coiler I've ridden, I've enjoyed the boards the most when I center upon the inserts and ignore Jack's method of centering on the sidecut. Based on email conversations with Bruce, he pays close attention to position in the inserts correctly on each of his models. On the new "NSR" (new school race) models, I think he told me the inserts are setback 8cm(!) and after 3 days riding mine I can tell you he nailed the position on it. (In fact the first time out in soft snow, I was thinking they needed to be even farther back - but on firmer snow centered upon the inserts was dead on!)

[bobdea]

most boards I end up on the forward most inserts, coilers I only do sometimes.

[JoelP]

here's my experience with that board.

I ride mostly the Pure Races's (PR) and I have lots of people demo my boards. I always center my stance to the inserts and when I set up other people's bindings I do the same. I've not found any of the Coilers to ride any better than to be centered. Then came my AM. I centered it and rode it there and all was fine...kind of..the AM has a different flex pattern than the PR's and what i found was that if I was out on a hard snow day trying to hard charge carve, the initiation was always a lot tougher than the PR's. Once in the turn all was okay but I was off on my initiation of the turn. It felt weird so I started moving my bindings forward and found about 1" worked well for me. But then it wasn't riding as well in crud, chopped up, powder, bumpy stuff. So I moved them back and the board was in balance again for that type of riding. Well the AM is just what it is, it's an All Mountain board and has a different flex. It will do everything good but not everything as good as a board specific board. For me that meant if it was a pure carving, hard charging day I would ride my PR's, I could ride the AM and be very happy but the PR's were that much more fun.

the moral of the story is that you'll need to adapt your style a bit differently to the AM to get it's full capabilities. It is designed to do everything well but nothing perfectly. Wait a bit longer on turn initiation and drive a bit more off the nose (think beginning contact point) and it will hook up fine, just a tad later than you may be accustomed to. Then lay into it centered again and the middle of the board will work like a PR. Keep your stance as close to centered or else you'll lose it's other capabilities in junky snow by applying to much nose pressure and the back of the board will spin out or not follow correctly.

I hope that helps a bit and I'll try to explain more if needed. The AM is a bit stiffer in nose and tail and softer in mid section where his other boards are more balanced in flex, therefore the different feeling in ride and a bit of change needed in style....a subtle change and you'll get it. But don't go to far forward or the tail will not follow the nose.

Mike has a titanal AM.....a whole different beast....titanal boards in general are a bit softer overall in flex and his is one of the first AM titanal boards so therefore may have needed a bit less nose pressure. that's part of what Bruce has been learning over the last winter riding these new boards.

Joel

[Terryw]

I appreciate the responses. This board is a titanal. I still have limited experience in carving. I have had a hard setup for a while, but until last year, I was just frustrated at a lack of progress. Then I found Bomber, made some friends, and finally figured out what I should be doing to progress.

I am sure some of my problems initiating turns are related to poor tecnique. I am just trying to decide how much of my problem is me and how much is my set up on my board ;).

So, from the posts, the consensus is that on the titanal AM, I will probably get the best over all response by centering on the inserts rather than centering on the effective edge. I guess I will just keep palying with it till I get it right .

[Buell]

Terryw, I might have the same board (177 Coiler AM-T, 21.5w, 12.7 sidecut). I have not ridden it much yet, but I have also found it to be more difficult to initiate the turns than other boards I have ridden. Once it is up on edge, as long as it is high enough on edge, it is fine as Joel mentions. Thanks for the post Joel.

One thing that did help my heel sides on the Coiler AM-T was to tighten my short BTS springs a bit.

I only plan to ride it on soft or chopped up groomers, so I will try moving the bindings forward the next time I ride it.

Buell

[Terryw]

It is funny you should mention BTS. I am using the Suzuka with all yellow springs. I was just thinking that part of my problem might be related to not having enough pre load on the springs. I will have to carank them up a little and see if that makes some difference. Of course at 200 pounds I might have to go to the blue springs. I need more days on the slopes just to dial in the setup. Can't wait to have every thing working together..... So many things to consider, cant, stance width, lift, angles, boot bias, boot stiffness, spring stiffness .....aaaaahhhhhhhh! Stop the madness!!!!

[JoelP]

Terry,

don't get to wrapped up in all the tech, it can drive you nuts unless you are out everyday and can play around with things to see the differences but truely in the end they are all very sutle (sp?) and don't add up to any major leaps in performance. I see your avatar is a Carveboard, I bet (I know) your feet aren't locked in, you flex a lot at the ankle to get low and you probably move around a bit. I ride a STIK all summer, love to just go with the flow of a street. Carving on the snowboard is the same unless you are full on racing. I use heel lift and toe lift for comfort, ride my boots very soft, use about the same angles on all boards (even ride my STIK with the same feet position). If you are riding a Carveboard then you are probably into the flow. Just think the same thing on the snowboard and flow from turn to turn and not be so worried about the tech part. the biggest difference going from a Carveboard to the snowboard is being locked in....so think loose not stiff.

Joel