Corey Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 I just received my first set of TD2 bindings from YYZ Canuck (super-fast service!) and was playing with the parts. I noticed that the center disk will rock in the cant disk from side to side. It's completely rigid from front to back as denoted by the tip/tail markings, but it rolls a fair bit from side to side. Refer to this for nomenclature: parts page With the E-ring in place and everything bolted down, this would allow the cant disk to rotate about the long axis of the board a bit. Not crazy amounts, but a fair bit. The left and right edges of the center disk can move about 0.024" up and down relative to the cant disk. The center discs are not flat when compared against the base of the base plate, they rock in the same direction quoted above. Almost like a potato chip with the high edges facing the edges of the board and the low edges facing forward. Both center disks rock in the same manner in either cant disk. To be 100% clear: there is no sliding-type motion, the center discs are a tight fit within the cant discs. 0.024" isn't a lot, the flexibility of the e-ring is WAY more than that. Maybe this is part of the design to allow a smooth lateral rocking of the whole binding relative to the board? Or maybe I just got unlucky and got bad parts? I don't know. Is this normal? I'd appreciate any input anyone can offer! :) - Politically correct statement: I'm not complaining, just wondering if the parts I have are ok before I bolt them up and use them on Sunday. I've called Bomber and YYZ Canuck but I think they've left for the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Hmm, 58 views and no dire warnings. That likely means that this is nothing out of the ordinary. If this is a design feature of the TD2, I'm surprised it's not touted more. It would allow the cant disc/base plate to roll from side to side relative to the board to some small degree but keep fore/aft roll to a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Well, I read through it, and frankly, don't think I'm qualified or knowledgable enough to give you input on this (2x before and after your second post). I just took apart all my gear today to get ready for summer storage, and then came here and read this. So, I didn't get to check out exactly what my TD2s were doing. From what I can recall of my bindings, I have no clue WTF you're talking about :lol: ... I'm pretty sure my bindings aren't moving around and are completely flat against the topsheet of my board. I can be pretty sure that once I screw down the bottom set of plates (cant/lift disc, and that center disc) that nothing is moving around and the whole setup is solid -- like it think it should be. Anyway, take it for what you will, but I really don't think your bindings should be doing that (what you described, that is), at least I can be almost sure that mine don't. I'd say everything seems to be tightly snug in place. Stuff really shouldn't be moving around. -- wow, that was really long winded. hopefully some real BOLers with more than a season of experience on TD2s can help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Sorry, I was waiting until I got to my cabin tonight to check my TD2. By center disk you mean the black disc that is fastened to the board via the bolts. Yea, mine has no slop to it at all. Are you sure you've tightened the bolts properly and the disk is not upside down or off the side a little? A photo would be very useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mario Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 There is a small amount of movement built into your td2's, this is "suspension" or damping that the td1's did not have. It is more obvious in the softer e rings, and it can be disconcerting the first time you see it in a bench situation. Fret not, just make sure all of your hardware is tight and mounted per instructions and go ride. mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 corey_dyck, Yep, movement in the lower assembly system is completely part of the system. The only direction the Center Disk and Cant Disk do not move is in rotation to each other. The entire lower assembly was designed to allow the Cant Disk to "float" on top of the E-Rings and this is what gives you the suspension effect, there is no direct connection between the Cant and the board, you have to go though the E-Ring. In its non-installed form the parts move or slide with-in each other but once installed the E-Rings get pre-loaded and this type of movement is gone, as far as with your bare hands. Unless you are seeing something else I cannot quite understand from the description, you are fine and ready to make turns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 I guess I should have posted a picture or video to start, duh! Bullwings - it'll be easiest to see with the bindings apart. Video 1: http://members.shaw.ca/ckdyck1/bomber/HPIM2391.MPG You can see the black center disc rocking relative to the cant disc in the first direction I'm pushing on it, then it's rock solid when pushing the other way. Both center discs, both cant plates, any orientation of the cant disc gets this same motion. Video 2: http://members.shaw.ca/ckdyck1/bomber/HPIM2393.MPG Center disc alone on a glass table. Does the same thing against a straight edge, the TD2 baseplate, etc. Going into theory here: Once the whole assembly was bolted down to a board, you'd have to compress the e-ring to get this same motion. In effect the cant disc/baseplate/boot would act like a teeter-totter that goes from side-to-side along the axis of the board with urethane preloaded under each side. I doubt you could feel this motion by hand. Again, I'm not complaining! I want to make sure all is well before I put scuff up the mounting holes and make them mine forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Just saw the two posts above mine. Brilliant system! That's a heck of a way to allow controlled flex in one direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Corey, the only problem I could see with your system is if the center disks aren't flat on the bottom. They should be flat to make even contact with the board. You could check that by setting them on something flat, like a table saw surface. Mine don't rock at all the way you described, but if the cant disk (big triangular thing) was a little curved, I wouldn't care because it's made to have movement anyway as others here said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted April 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Corey, the only problem I could see with your system is if the center disks aren't flat on the bottom. The center discs are absolutely NOT flat, they rock from side to side as shown in the video above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 I'd call them and talk about it, if there is a problem with some of them they will want to know about it. On a flat surface mine don't rock at all like yours do in the videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted April 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 It turns out I can't ride today anyway, the ski hill closed due to rain. :( I'll call YYZ and/or Bomber on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 center disks dont even touch the board...and...didnt Fin already say its all good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted April 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 center disks dont even touch the board...and...didnt Fin already say its all good? I posted the video after Fin's post. Maybe the lack of pictures/video meant Fin misunderstood my question. Maybe he understood perfectly clearly. Maybe Steve Dold has bad center discs that have been preventing him from getting the designed-in benefits of TD2s. Or maybe I managed to get some bad parts. Or maybe they're all well within manufacturing tolerance and it doesn't matter at all. Which option is right? Given that we currently have a sample size of two that have actually checked for center disc curvature (Steve and me) and they are different, I'm going to call on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Let us know what you find. I can't think of any reason that those pieces would be curved on the bottom, unless they were sliced on a band saw that was pushing too hard, something like that. I don't know how they make them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 center disks dont even touch the board No, the center disks are the only metal part touching the board. The cant disks do not touch the board. The center disks are black and have the degree markings on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 sure about that? I thought they just squeezed the cants...compressed everything together, but didnt actually touch. ahhh whatever...binding analysis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 sure about that? I thought they just squeezed the cants...compressed everything together, but didnt actually touch. Actually the Center Disk does compress down onto the board. It is the Cant Disk that is isolated (floating) from the board via the E-Ring. The best way to visualize this (if ya got the spare time) is to install the Center Disk and Cant Disk without the E-Ring. You then see how the system works. If you do this you see that the Cant Disk can now move around quite a bit, but it is contained by the Center Disk. Of course in this form it would be bad as we would have little control over the movement, the binding would just flop around with no resistance. The E-ring gives us the control of this movement and can be varied with different hardness values of the E-Rings. FYI: Do NOT run the TD2 with out the E-Ring. Bad stuff would happen Now I understand what you mean corey_dyck from the vids. The Center Disk is a (relatively) thin cut and machined piece of aluminum. It is very hard to keep it dead flat. So the Disks do have some variance on flatness of a couple of thousands. However, we remove as much material as possible (while maintaining safety) to allow the Disk to go flat once installed. Once you tighten down those 4 M6 screws with the 5mm Hex Heads it all goes into compression and flattens out. The truth of the matter is your snowboard has more curvature on the top sheet then any binding will. And curvature that goes from convex to concave depending on what you are doing with it! Bottom line is your Center Disks are fine so go ahead and install and ride them.......but not in the rain, just not fun. And if you read the fine print, your warrantee is void if the bindings get wet :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Actually the Center Disk does compress down onto the board. I stand corrected Once you tighten down those 4 M6 screws with the 5mm Hex Heads it all goes into compression and flattens out. thats what I was thinking. too much thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted April 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Now I understand what you mean corey_dyck from the vids. The Center Disk is a (relatively) thin cut and machined piece of aluminum. It is very hard to keep it dead flat. So the Disks do have some variance on flatness of a couple of thousands. However, we remove as much material as possible (while maintaining safety) to allow the Disk to go flat once installed. Once you tighten down those 4 M6 screws with the 5mm Hex Heads it all goes into compression and flattens out. Thank you for clearing that up! It's really cool to be able to have such direct interaction with the people that design and make products. And if you read the fine print, your warrantee is void if the bindings get wet :p Now THAT's going to be a problem, I already drooled on them a little bit. ;) I passed them around work here (engineers/machinsts/etc.). They were all very impressed by the obviously purposeful and optimized design and nice machine work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Cool, Fin answered your question. I was gonna say, that my center disc is completely flat and doesn't rock like yours does. There is some play once mate it together with the cant disc though. Seems like it all gets "locked" once you screw them into the inserts of your board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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