does rear lift offload weight?

[queequeg]

So, last weekend I started out with a wider stance than ususal, (18") facilitated by plenty of heel lift (prolly about 6-7 deg) and a bit of toe lift (prolly about 2-3 deg) there was also a tiny bit of cant involved. Probably 1-2 degrees on each foot. In the past, I have not used lift, but I tried it now to facilitate a wider stance on my longer board.

It seems to me that all day long I could not get enough pressure on my rear foot, no matter how hard I tried. A disproportionate amount of my force/weight was being placed on my front foot and it was causing me a lot of problems. Has anyone else experienced this? Caveat: this was my first day carving in over 2 years, so my technique was not always good, as I was remembering how to do stuff all day long.

I think this weekend I am going to flatten out my stance, leaving a few degrees of lift on the front foot and narrow my stance slightly. Any thoughts?

[Mats]

It´s all about being low. What you are experiencing is probably due to upright position. If so you are leaning forward and not standing centerd. Try max forward lean on backboot and then bend your knees much more than you usually do. This should probably be the cure.

I ride with same setup as you do which suits me perfect.

[V*L*A*D]

for starters, eliminate your heel lift altogether, and consider keeping some toe-lift. I ride with no lift in either,

i prefer to foster a balanced, flat-footed stance from that vector.

try to be more dynamic in terms if thrust (ie knee drive), underfoot, and less obsessed with static pressure on each foot.

[queequeg]

All day I wasn not low enough, that is definitely part of the problem. I was really struggling with getting my body low all day long.

Partially due to my bad technique after not riding for 2+ years, for sure. I think maybe when I go to stratton on friday, I will try pushing the rear cuff forward on my rear boot -- I had assumed this would not be necessary with the huge amount of cant on the rear foot. Rather than flatten the rear foot out totally, I'm going to lower the amount of lift, to about 3 degrees, and really crank down the cuff on my rear boot ... hopefully that will help me get my body in the right position.

[V*L*A*D]

All day I wasn not low enough, that is definitely part of the problem. I was really struggling with getting my body low all day long.

Partially due to my bad technique after not riding for 2+ years, for sure. I think maybe when I go to stratton on friday, I will try pushing the rear cuff forward on my rear boot -- I had assumed this would not be necessary with the huge amount of cant on the rear foot. Rather than flatten the rear foot out totally, I'm going to lower the amount of lift, to about 3 degrees, and really crank down the cuff on my rear boot ... hopefully that will help me get my body in the right position.

if you're hoping to use cuff angle as a shortcut to a properly centered neutral stance, you've already lost the battle.

[trailertrash]

I think if you are willing to take recomendations from people who haven't seen you on your set up you've already lost the battle.

[V*L*A*D]

I think if you are willing to take recomendations from people who haven't seen you on your set up you've already lost the battle.

bear in mind that cuff angle is meant to serve as a secondary to one's canting or to their neutral inclination...regardless of riding style, etc.

Do we need to see a prosepctive jumper to surmise that a leap from the GW bridge will kill them?

[trailertrash]

bear in mind that cuff angle is meant to serve as a secondary to one's canting or to their neutral inclination...regardless of riding style, etc.

Do we need to see a prosepctive jumper to surmise that a leap from the GW bridge will kill them?

no, i am sure from your other posts you know how to fix a problem, but you can't make blanket statements like "...for starters, eliminate your heel lift altogether..." with out seeing how this guy stacks up on his equipment.

[V*L*A*D]

you mean blanket statements like:

I think if you are willing to take recomendations from people who haven't seen you on your set up you've already lost the battle.

?

That statement suggest either:

A. Forum members should not seek the counsel of others on this forum unless the other riders have seen them ride,

or

B. I should not take the time to respond to riders who are asking for assistance from the open forum, unless I've seen them ride.

My input, lest i have seen them ride, is worthless.

either way, i can deal with it. frees up more of my time.

[trailertrash]

i think you are right on with the neutral balanced stance suggestion. i just dont see how anyone can help somebody get there with out seeing them.

[lonerider]

Yes rear lift can offload weight. The lift shifts your weight in the direction of the slope of the lift. With all heel lift in the back binding (which due to the high angles of plate bindings) you weight is shifted forward quite a bit. Just try it now. Stand in alpine stance, now put something (a book, a sandal) under you back heel. See how you weight shifts forward? It's the same thing when riding... cant and lift adjustments should be done careful to properly align the body and weight... in general I would just go flat to start off.

[V*L*A*D]

i think you are right on with the neutral balanced stance suggestion. i just dont see how anyone can help somebody get there with out seeing them.

understood and respectfully noted-

My feeling is that very, very few are really helped by heel lift, hence my blanket dismissal of it.

Heel lift effectively reduces the extension radius of one's leg and also renders near-impossible the ability of the rider to straighten the leg out.

In a GS turn, I want as much leg length as I can possibly get, when extending...I do NOT want to feel my ankle being forced into an acute angle due to some disco-bondage equipment.

Heel lift limits this extension considerably.

I go so far as to remove the ramping from the boots of my ski and snowboard athletes, and my upper level recreational students, so as to remove the constant knee bend from the equation.

It is absolutely amazing to see how much an alpine boarder improves when even the factory ramping from their boots is so-removed, let alone when binding heel-lift is removed.

My blanket-statement, as such, was levelled (pun intended) at the practice of using heel lift, both in binding attitude and in the factory boot setup....regardless of rider.

i alsotake issue with the manner in which heel lift rotates the trailing hip toward/over toeside...many riders who develop hip and lower back pain in their trailing side (ie goofy in the left side of the back/hip) find relief upon removal of heel lift.

the lift is doing little good for the discs in that side of the lower back....

Incidentally, knee injury incidence is substantially reduced when heel lift is removed from the equation, as the knees then are allowed to straighten into their relaxed state, as opposed to constantly having the medial meniscal impingement.

[queequeg]

Ok, so I guess I will try and completely flatten out the rear foot, leaving the small amount of toe lift I have on the forward foot. -- I did have some knee pain on my front leg towards the end of the day last week, so I'm wondering if that is related (never a problem before).

I'll probably have to narrow my stance a bit from 18" to do this, but that's no problem as I used to ride a pretty narrow stance in the past.

Otherwise, I'll loosen up the spring in my rear boot to make it softer.

[V*L*A*D]

Ok, so I guess I will try and completely flatten out the rear foot, leaving the small amount of toe lift I have on the forward foot. -- I did have some knee pain on my front leg towards the end of the day last week, so I'm wondering if that is related (never a problem before).

I'll probably have to narrow my stance a bit from 18" to do this, but that's no problem as I used to ride a pretty narrow stance in the past.

Otherwise, I'll loosen up the spring in my rear boot to make it softer.

my suggestion is that you remove the toelift, as well, considering your knee pain.

bear in mind- we are given these excellent feet upon which we walk, usually in a relatively flat attitude (higher heels offset this dynamic, of course)...and when we suddenly change this lifelong alignment, our knees typically suffer....not to mention our balance, which is, then, constantly trying to adjust to the new set-up.

One suggestion which you might find helpful is to (stance)angle the rear foot more than the front. I had an excellent coach who had our whole team ride this way, and it really allows for more drive with the rear knee without ramping (heel lift).

stand with your boots unbuckled over your setup, then affect your mean riding posture, still unbuckled.

Take note of your lower leg angles, and tailor your cuff angle to those angles...

You'll be riding in snap-response/comfort paradise.

(afterthought: queequeg: I see you're in the city- I live, presently, 40 minutes Northwest, in Orange County. If you'd like some free bootfitting stance help, in person, let me know. I'd be glad to help)

[paappraiser]

understood and respectfully noted-

I go so far as to remove the ramping from the boots of my ski and snowboard athletes, and my upper level recreational students, so as to remove the constant knee bend from the equation.

It is absolutely amazing to see how much an alpine boarder improves when even the factory ramping from their boots is so-removed, let alone when binding heel-lift is removed.

What is this factory ramping ... am I missing something?

[dshack]

Try as many configurations as you can to see what works for you, but stay open-minded and objective.

My first day out, I ran about 5 degrees heel lift and 3 degrees toe lift. As I awkwardly made it down the mountain, I ran into a few racers, who suggested flat feet and lower angles. Gave that a go, and my knees felt strained, clipping into bindings felt awkward, and my front leg burned. I wasn't carving badly, but I was uncomfortable enough that I was not enjoying myself

Next time out, I tried 6 degrees of toe lift and 3 degrees of heel lift. This made my ride incredibly comfortable, and shifted my weight back enough that, even though my bindings were centered, my fairly narrow race board rode pretty well in the powder. My carving felt good, but I wasn't getting as low as I had before, and I had a hunch that the toe lift was preventing me from shifting my weight forward as much as I wanted.

Finally, I settled on 6 degrees heel/3 degrees toe. This seems to facilitate a diving weight transfer, make my front foot a lot more comfortable, and really help out my turns. I'm glad I didn't settle on the most comfortable configuration, or the one I was told was the "best" by a few rippers I met on the slope. YMMV, but do what seems to make you carve well.

[V*L*A*D]

What is this factory ramping ... am I missing something?

the preset angle of inclination in the hard footbed of your hardboots/ski boots, under your liner.

[paappraiser]

the preset angle of inclination in the hard footbed of your hardboots/ski boots, under your liner.

Thanks...... Ill have to look at my rachlies .. I dont think there is anything in there... except a really thin plastic thingie.

[V*L*A*D]

Try as many configurations as you can to see what works for you, but stay open-minded and objective.

My first day out, I ran about 5 degrees heel lift and 3 degrees toe lift. As I awkwardly made it down the mountain, I ran into a few racers, who suggested flat feet and lower angles. Gave that a go, and my knees felt strained, clipping into bindings felt awkward, and my front leg burned. I wasn't carving badly, but I was uncomfortable enough that I was not enjoying myself

Next time out, I tried 6 degrees of toe lift and 3 degrees of heel lift. This made my ride incredibly comfortable, and shifted my weight back enough that, even though my bindings were centered, my fairly narrow race board rode pretty well in the powder. My carving felt good, but I wasn't getting as low as I had before, and I had a hunch that the toe lift was preventing me from shifting my weight forward as much as I wanted.

Finally, I settled on 6 degrees heel/3 degrees toe. This seems to facilitate a diving weight transfer, make my front foot a lot more comfortable, and really help out my turns. I'm glad I didn't settle on the most comfortable configuration, or the one I was told was the "best" by a few rippers I met on the slope. YMMV, but do what seems to make you carve well.

safe advice at times, but changing angles too much is hell on the soft tissues of the knees- this is why it's a good idea to ask folks who've been doing this for a long time (for some of us- a very long time) what worked well for them, thus hitching a ride on their bad knees.

notice I never suggested any stance angles...;)

[V*L*A*D]

Thanks...... Ill have to look at my rachlies .. I dont think there is anything in there... except a really thin plastic thingie.

check the angle of the plastic under the thin 'thingie':D

Raichle was often good with respect to this...

[queequeg]

I think I have both of my bindings set at 65 deg right now, though in the past I have gotten excellent results from a higher rear foot angle. I have usually ridden with matching angles or the rear foot slightly higher.

Thanks for your offer-- I am car-free right now so getting out to orange county doesn't happen very often for me, but If I get the chance I will most certainy take you up on your offer!

[paappraiser]

check the angle of the plastic under the thin 'thingie':D

Raichle was often good with respect to this...

Thanks again.. since my season is now over, Ill be taking my boots apart and clean them etc.. Im guessing you are saying you can grind this down a little.. (I love breaking out the dremmel !)

thanks again..

[Jack M]

I think if you are willing to take recomendations from people who haven't seen you on your set up you've already lost the battle.

Damn. I guess I'm out.

[V*L*A*D]

Damn. I guess I'm out.

genius.jack:biggthump

[queequeg]

So I made some adjustments in my living room last night.

Initially, I flattened out both bindings, and adjusted the cuffs on both boots, allowing the front boot to get a bit more vertical, and pushing the rear one down a bit as well as softening the spring.

That worked well but my stance felt super wide and I could not compress my body down very far given the width of my stance, so I shortened it to about 16.75, which really helped a lot.

Then I played with the angles a bit. I pigeon toed the rear a few degrees which felt good but it also felt like my front foot wanted to follow suit, so I gave that a shot, and it really helped. I felt a lot more balanced and neutral in the new stance, and I was able to get low pretty easily--It just generally felt like I gained a lot of mobility.

Thanks alot V*L*A*D and everyone else!

-Jose

M*A*S*H?