Guest dragon fly jones Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Maybe this will be the spark that lights USSA to really offer a product to Junior racers. The abidcation of a large part of the competitors is damn near criminal. Lets see 1000 kids under 18 competiting in ASA - get half those kids into SSA and figure out the math. Well there are other issues but. Oh I feel a major rant coming on. Then again maybe not. For Bromley - enjoy and have fun, that's what all these sports that we do were all about when we first started. As long as that is the core principal we will all come out ahead. And on that note - I wish all the racers at Bromley and at Placid the best of luck. Hasta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRidesSquaw Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 I don't think USASA pays any attention to how far apart gates are set...last year at northstar it was all about whoever had a great tuck and had the longest board. I think the biggest challenge going from USASA to USSA is in both cross and alpine events is that you need to know how to ride in USSA events. A lot of the people at Nationals could not race down Howelson hill without totally losing control, nor could they ride a course like the one they had in Idaho last weekend. The biggest assumption people here are making is that people at nationals are really competitive enough to want to go to the next level. A lot of the kids there I have met the last few years don't care at all about improving or competing in a serious event, they just like telling people they made it to nationals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 I pay attention to the sets at USASA Nationals. I set a few of the courses last year. The G.S. hill is so flat you really can't do much as far as the set goes. I did force a re-set in the open class SL because the distance was not even close to legal and I thought with the conditions and ability level someone was going to get hurt. Just about all the courses set last year were legal, except for a turn or two. But part of that comes down to another area where USASA needs to improve. They do very little coaches education. The coaches are never really taught how to set properly. USSA lacks this also, but since we travel to races all over North America and in some cases the world if someone sets something not up to par the other coaches speak up and the course setter learns very quickly. Trust me it isn't fun when you have a bunch of Euro coaches yelling at you about how they don't like turn 3,5 and 9. In USASA a person sets in his region and usually there isn't anyone there with much experience to keep things in check. As for the SBX in Tamarack that course was interesting. Personally I think the flow was off from day one, but they made enough changes to make it rideable for finals. If we held the race on Monday it would have been epic. Good snow and blue bird, versus a wet blizzard. I had a great time in Tamarack though, and will mark it as a place I will return to in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil sunday Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 i've been setting all our practice courses this year at 22-25 meters for gs training ,and 10-12 meters for slslom training. i'll be at Northstar from saturday the 31st to the following sunday, the 8th. i'd be happy to set courses on whatever days... i'll bring my ropes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dragon fly jones Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Phil - Neil and the boys, What about us compiling some data and trying to have it added to the course setters section for USASA. I have no issue helping train other coaches in the fine ninja art of course setting, terrain choices, fall zones, spacing and other nuances of making holes in the snow. Hell we all have camera's, knowledge and ways to explain stuff, so let's do it up, what are the powers that be going to do, tells us no thanks for trying to help, if they do, well it will still exist and be of assistance. A win win for coaches and riders and hopefully for the organization as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Hey guys, If you do something like that I would love to see it. I recently co-wrote a snowboarding manual for Special Olympics International. Its quite a bit different in some ways than a regular teaching/coaching gig and we have a lot of experience with it. However, we have very limited course setting knowledge other than the FIS regs which we have looked up and modified slightly for Special Olympics purposes. Its easy to find the numbers and read about the hard facts, but totally different to put that into use. A practical guide/outline to would be awesome for many people I would think. We also plan to take the USSA coaching/judging courses next year, but the snowboard end of things still seems to be pretty lacking there. Thanks, Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dragon fly jones Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Brett, Let us know what we can do to help. If there is a gathering or something or clinics you guys are doing in the west or midwest maybe one of us would donate some time to help you guys out. There may be some mods that need to be made to accomodate or maybe not define what you need and the brain trust here would more than likely step up to help. Not that I am volunteering anyone other than myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 The biggest assumption people here are making is that people at nationals are really competitive enough to want to go to the next level. A lot of the kids there I have met the last few years don't care at all about improving or competing in a serious event, they just like telling people they made it to nationals... That's true Rob, and certainly anyone racing alpine in softies, especially with a 8-9m sidecut board in GS, really isn't taking it seriously, but there are a fair number of alpine riders in USASA who do take it seriously and are good enough to race USSA, and do so. I race against a number of them in the Southern VT Series. I kind of wish though that some of the USASA coaches and SD's would take alpine more seriously, but they are into the "it's all about fun, not competition" thing. That SD this winter who said to me, at their OWN race, "you're all about racing aren't you" - in a tone that indicated I was too competitive about it, says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Trust me it isn't fun when you have a bunch of Euro coaches yelling at you about how they don't like turn 3,5 and 9. :lol: :lol: :lol: I know it isn't funny when it is happening - but that made me laugh reading it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 i've been setting all our practice courses this year at 22-25 meters for gs training ,and 10-12 meters for slslom training. i'll be at Northstar from saturday the 31st to the following sunday, the 8th. i'd be happy to set courses on whatever days... i'll bring my ropes! Neil - please do!! I'd be glad to help on Tues / Wed. / Thurs. if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Phil - Neil and the boys, What about us compiling some data and trying to have it added to the course setters section for USASA. I have no issue helping train other coaches in the fine ninja art of course setting, terrain choices, fall zones, spacing and other nuances of making holes in the snow. Hell we all have camera's, knowledge and ways to explain stuff, so let's do it up, what are the powers that be going to do, tells us no thanks for trying to help, if they do, well it will still exist and be of assistance. A win win for coaches and riders and hopefully for the organization as a whole. Chuck - I don't know you personally, but that would be a big improvement! I've been talking to Scott Palmer about a "Series Director's" manual, for all events, and I know he and others have discussed it in the past. Someone like him doesn't need it of course, but there are certainly those who do, and it would really help standardize USASA events, so you could expect better and more consisitent events. Right now as you know thay are all over the map. We had a USASA SL at Ascutney this winter that was essentially a DH...I think they grabbed the pizza chef out of the kitchen, gave him some gates, and said go set! As you know, even the USASA rule book is pretty disjointed and incomplete in a lot of places. Since they don't have the time or resources to really do anything about it, it would really be great if we got a grass roots rider/coach-powered thing going where a pool of knowledge is put together and documents created. I just hope they will have the smarts to say thanks and USE what is given. On another note, I fore-ran a USSA Masters Super-G yesterday and it was amazing to see the difference in the overall quality of how the event went off compared to most (SVT excepted) USASA events - for the SAME $50 entry fee per race that we pay!! A special start hill created with a cat, bee netting everywhere, plenty of knowledgeable course workers with radios, an organized and clear registration table. If they can do it for $50, we should be able to as well. When I pay $50 and the SL is a 25 second DH with a dangerous 40 foot long finish corral, and there are NO gatekeepers (not that they were needed that day), and the start area push poles are useless, I wonder where the money is going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Hey guys,If you do something like that I would love to see it. I recently co-wrote a snowboarding manual for Special Olympics International. Its quite a bit different in some ways than a regular teaching/coaching gig and we have a lot of experience with it. However, we have very limited course setting knowledge other than the FIS regs which we have looked up and modified slightly for Special Olympics purposes. Its easy to find the numbers and read about the hard facts, but totally different to put that into use. A practical guide/outline to would be awesome for many people I would think. We also plan to take the USSA coaching/judging courses next year, but the snowboard end of things still seems to be pretty lacking there. Thanks, Brett Brett - if you need any help with graphics, images or document creation/distribution, let me know...that's my biz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncermak Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Gentlemen... I'll bring it to the Board. I'll be at Nationals this year (and of course look forward to seeing all of you guys), And will actually be serving as an understudy to be a TS at the alpine events. I'd love to get an Alpine steering comittee together which could tackle some of these issues Chuck...I love the idea of an improved manual...any chance you want to spearhead that effort? Phil - Please show up with athletes...if not...show up alone and heckle us...I understand that its for our own good. Rick - Lots more to that TC thing than is publicly known...'nuf said -NBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Rick - Lots more to that TC thing than is publicly known...'nuf said-NBC Yup - that became clear...part of the reason I gave the whole thing a rest...just wanna race and let the other stuff fade away! :) BTW - got another foot+ up here today...the Super-G was cancelled but the woods were phenomenal! Almost got blown off a chair for the second time in my life though...the first time was on the old Riblet double "Texas" chair at Mt. Hood Meadows, but this was scarier...70+ gusts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted March 5, 2007 Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 Brett, Let us know what we can do to help. If there is a gathering or something or clinics you guys are doing in the west or midwest maybe one of us would donate some time to help you guys out. There may be some mods that need to be made to accomodate or maybe not define what you need and the brain trust here would more than likely step up to help. Not that I am volunteering anyone other than myself. Hello Mr Jones :) Thanks for the offer. I for one would love to take you up on that. We always do a large clinic for all the coaches and racers in early December, and I also come out to Copper every year during the second or third week of Jan. Maybe next year we could work on something. I will also talk to the director of Sports proghramming for Special Olympics and see what he thinks. For now, we basically set using the FIS rules for ski courses as we only reset for snowboarders at our larger events because there just isn't enough people to justify resets at some of the events. Once we set, we then ride the course and make any adjustments that we see necessary given the ability levels of the athletes in that particular competition. A few of our guys have taken the course setter classes from USSA, but no one really "knows" how to set a regulation snowboard course. I would be interested even in just seeing one set and having a good description of the thinking and rules that went into it. Porbably asking a lot, but I would love to do it if it worked out without cramping anyone's time. If you want to talk about it some more just drop me an e-mail through the board. thanks, Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuff Posted March 5, 2007 Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 If there is a gathering or something or clinics you guys are doing in the west or midwest maybe one of us would donate some time to help you guys out. I would be interested in attending, assisting, organizing or hosting. Keep me posted. it would really be great if we got a grass roots rider/coach-powered thing going where a pool of knowledge is put together and documents created. I too can assist with any graphics or illustration needs. I came across a 2003 USASA Course Setter Manual the other day. It has probably been updated since, but not see documentation on the USASA Trainers section of the site. I can certainly post this on-line in a .pdf as a reference, or starting point for any new documentation discussion. If whoever is setting would be willing to take on a few apprentices during a course-setting process, that'd be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted March 5, 2007 Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 All this kind of talk warms my heart...there is nothing (relatively speaking of course) worse than training and planning and spending and then showing up at a race and seeing a course that looks like it was set by the GEICO cave dudes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil sunday Posted March 5, 2007 Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 DFJ- sorry, i just came back form two days of races at my home mountain... 2 slaloms sat, two GS on sunday... i have tons of pictures that were taken by a friend of the actual course setup... i have some free time to compose some stuff... i'll email you what i come up with, and vice versa. you can send me anything to neilsunday@aol.com Phil- any thoughts? See you guys soon.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dragon fly jones Posted March 5, 2007 Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 Will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyYT316 Posted March 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 Looks like Northstar is hooking us up at the USASA nationals. They're now going to give us 6 days of lift passes no matter what we pay for the entry fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 Well what do you know - so many people told me to shut my mouth and stop "complaining"...and now the voices have been heard. Guess I wasn't alone. It was the right thing to do. Northstar is going to make a lot more money off the people who will now just stay there on their off days and not go to other mountains and eat and buy stuff. Thank you Northstar and USASA. I still will probably got to Kirkwood Wednesday though! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaynard Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 hooray!!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuff Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Tickets: That's great news about the lift tickets!! Thank you Northstar!! Course Setting sub-topic: I posted my copy of the 2003 USASA Course Setters Manual - in PDF format. ~5.5 MB Has some information and visuals, but distances are a bit off, as discussed here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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