zoltan Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 A friend and I are going to Utah soon for a week of riding and we're mostly going to be playing in the trees and nearcountry. Everything we'll be riding is lift accessed. Usually we have a bigger group going, but this year it's just the two of us, so I'm trying to find out what gear we should have with us to make it safer and not necessarily have to leapfrog each other riding. I'm thinking at least whistles and good quality radios (5 watt Midlands). Anything else we should consider taking/doing? I'm also considering finding some small snowshoes I can strap to my Camelbak in case I need to hike out of somewhere or I need to run back up hill to help out my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crucible Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Get good helmets and googles for you and your crew, and the other thing that I would suggest are small avalanche shovels. The shovels are for digging out anyone who gets stuck in a tree well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted February 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Yup, we both have helmets and googles and good waterproof gear. I just kinda consider that stuff part of our standard outfit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 If you're in avy country, even if it's lift-accessed (you going thru a gate or something?) I'd reccomend beacons, probes, and shovels. You can never be too safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstzephyr Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 What would be a good recommendation for a shovel? Or just grab a folding shovel? Also I've never really understood the probes...think you might be able to elaborate? As for the question and not hijacking, I've heard whistles are very much recommended, also I think a cell phone, or radio, or both probably couldn't hurt. But then again I know everyone around the mountain I do backcountry stuff, so I can call somebody with a snowmobile to haul my ass out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimo Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 What would be a good recommendation for a shovel? Or just grab a folding shovel? Also I've never really understood the probes...think you might be able to elaborate? I've got the new Black Diamond Deploy 7. It's a pretty fancy retracting shovel that stows very compact and opens very quickly. I actually wanted a lower tech shovel for backpacking, the Pit Boss, but it wasn't available when I needed a shovel. However, for carrying while riding, the fancier one might be better 'cause it's less likely to catch on something while riding. As for probes, I think the idea is to keep sticking the probe in the snow until you hit the victim in eye and they scream in pain thereby letting you know where they are under the snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffy Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 If you're in avy country, even if it's lift-accessed (you going thru a gate or something?) I'd reccomend beacons, probes, and shovels. You can never be too safe. Having that gear is a must...........but if you dont have the proper training in the backcountry it wont do you any good!!!! Go with someone that knows the ropes of the BC game!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 As for probes, I think the idea is to keep sticking the probe in the snow until you hit the victim in eye and they scream in pain thereby letting you know where they are under the snow. BWAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2board Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 If you have to ask what gear to bring and don't know the area, hire a guide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 The best gear to use is your head. This is probably the worst year in a long time to go out of the resort boundries. Like others have said if you don't know what gear to bring, you shouldn't even be going. Check out the www.avalanche.org page for recent conditions and you'll know what I'm talking about. Remeber people die every year, even when the have the proper gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 The last 3 comments are the best advice you could get. The fact that you're asking these questions shows you care about your safety, but without specific knowledge, gained through use of the equipment, it will be useless to you. Hire a guide who can not only show you how to go where you're going, but give you a primer on use of the gear you're carrying. Travel safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crucible Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Gentlemen, Zoltan expressly said that he and his buddy were going to spend the majority of their time in the trees... Avalanche danger will be reduced if he keeps to his plan, but not eliminated- their bigger risks will be from tree well suffocation if they get separated and one of them gets sucked in, or from blunt force trauma from hitting a tree. SO, communication and keeping together is key for big mountain tree riding, as well as having the skills and equipment needed to deal with the above mentioned hazards, equipment or route finding mishaps. I went down the wrong valley doing tree runs in Montana 10 years ago, I had to spend the night out with my partners until the next morning, when we climbed back up the ridge and got back on course. We had shovels, space blankets, and emergency fire-starters, so we built a snowcave, a fire with reflector logs to help with heat, and cut pine boughs to insulate the snowcave floor, and shivvered. No one got much sleep, but we didn't end up with hypothermia or frostbite, and made it back in one piece. One thing we didn't have was a small metal pot, and so we had to imporvise by heating up the metal shovel handles of our snow shovels on the fire and sticking them into our Nalgene bottles to melt the packed snow inside. Now, I always take a small stainless steel metal cup with me in my emergency pack just in case I end up in that type of situation again. It carries my spare capilene liner gloves, a tea bag, and a spare lighter and tinder, and looks like this: http://www.tadgear.com/x-treme%20gear/stoves%20&%20cook%20gear%20main%20main/snowpeak_titanium_450_mug.htm The one shown is titanium, stainless steel costs about $8.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 When we go out of bounds, we are NOT planning on riding in exposed areas. I know we don't have the equipment and experience for that and it's too dangerous otherwise. We will be staying in the trees, and mostly in bounds as well. My concern is that it's just the two of us, and we will be in the trees with low visability, so it will be hard to visually keep track of each other all the time. I'm looking for what I can do/bring to increase our safety margin in case one of us does get in trouble, we get split up, or end up in a hollow somewhere. What are alternatives to leapfrogging each other to the bottom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Four people have died here in Utah in the last two weeks in avalanches. One of them was just out of bounds, but lift served, at Snowbasin. There is a very unstable deep layer and it has been snowing hard for the last few weeks. Very dangerous. If you don't know exactly what you are doing, I would suggest you stick to the inbounds terrain. There is plenty of inbounds, avy controled terrain, that you still have to hike, to get the goods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 There is no such term as "nearcountry" you are either in bounds or in the backcountry. Tree wells are not much of a problem in Utah. Getting to and from the tree areas in Utah you will almost always have to travel through exposed areas. Even while in the trees you can remotely trigger an avalanche above you. This pic is from an area known as dutches draw. It is about 100 feet from the top of a lift at the Canyons ski area. It was triggered by a skier in the trees on the lower right part of the pic. The avalanche broke loose a slab above him. He did NOT live, he was in the trees when it was triggered. Also notice that the slope was skied multiple times before. What happened was that the when the skier went into the trees the snow pack became shallower. Shallow snow pack leads to a greater temp. gradient, which results in snow facetting. The avalanche danger for the day was listed as low with pockets of moderate. The danger for the past week has been moderate to high, and it does not look like it will change any time soon. Please stay in the ski area you are selfishly putting others in harms way when you go OB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 http://www.avalanche.org/~uac/AvalancheLists/AvalancheList06-07.htm Here is a list of reported avalanches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 This is from a slide that happened yesterday. Again this is within sight of a ski area lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Again yesterday, just outside a ski area. Skiers headed to the trees you can see in the pic. Partial burial, but everyone was OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Three days ago in Little Cottonwood Canyon. Intentially triggered slide. Notice the sweet, unexposed tree riding below the slide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Another pic of the above slide. Notice how far into the trees the debris ran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Please also check out this link. http://www.avalanche.org/~uac/photos/Images06-07/2-22-07,%20Gobblers,%20Kobernik-Hardesty.htm/ This guy died. He had years of backcountry experience and was in the trees. This was on 2-21-07. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 If this does not open your eyes, nothing will. Use your head, the locals aren't going OB right now. This is one of the worst snowpacks we've had in a long time. It is very unstable this year because of the weather patterns we had in late Nov. and Dec. Yes the shallow snow and artic temps we had in Dec. are now coming into play with the new snow. If you don't understand how this works stay inside the ropes. You might not kill yourself, but you could kill the person below you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 If you don't know the term Crown refers to the top part of the avalanche. Looks like a tree run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Ok, not going out of bounds this trip. My question still stands for in bounds tree riding though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Thank you Phil! Best posts in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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