Guest Diesel Junkie Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Hey guys, I have worn out my 6 year old soft boots and need somthing new. After spending a couple days on this board, i think i really like the whole Hardbooting thing and i want to do it. In retrospect i think i am a hardbooter trapped in softboots, until now. ... I really do not know much about all the technical details of cant angles and side cut radius and such but i am learning. i only get about 10 days a year, so i am not totally geeked out on the technical stuff, nor am i a super expert, but i do ok and have fun. i have been riding since the late 80's, most always owned long boards, I like all mountain riding, steep, powder, galdes, chutes, drops, hip jumps(<30') and i really like carving on the groomers. I have spent most of my boarding days on a 188 and a 175, both softbooted with turned up tails. Im 6'1" 220lbs, and i think i probably ride on the aggressive side of the spectrum. Basically i can never get the softboot bindings tight enough, i have to loosen them at the lift line and crank them at the top. based on my weight, i think maybe i should get the Deeluxe Indy boots?? What do you guys think? I will need bindings also, Do the step ins work? is there any compromise of performance with the step ins? What brand of bindings are the best?, I want to do it right the first time, but i doubt i need Titanium. Right now i have a Ride Timeless 168, Its a relatively new board, and seems to work well but is not a carve specific board by any means. Do you guys think this board is good enough for hard boots? I am tempted to get a new board also. I am drawn to the Prior 4wd 179 because of the turned up tail. i dont think i can give up the turned up tail and be able to ride all mountain. Is this a good board for my weight? Thanks a bunch for all your thoughts, and for reading this whole post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 From my experience, if you're remotely aggressive, with hardboots you're gonna want a hard board. It's a totally new feeling. I've already been tossed over backwards twice because I was pushing the nose too hard and if I were on my flimsy board I can only imagine how many times I'd go over. And that's if you can keep an edge on a soft board. In hard boots you have just about all of your energy going into that single edge and you don't want that edge floppin around at all. As for the boots and bindings, I don't know. I just got a pair of raichle 124s (used) and I'm looking forward to trying them out. I was riding in ski boots and toed out ALL the time. From what I've heard, for the most part stepin bindings are at least as good as standard bindings. I have some burton rat-traps and I'd say they're just as good as standard (as long as they're sized correctly) except they're very quick to pop into as your'e getting off the lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 If you want to keep riding all mountain, Indys may be a little too stiff. I am your size and ride Head Stratos pros - had a pair of 325's which I believe are similar stiffness to the indys and I found them completely unforgiving. You can ride the timeless in plates, but keep an eye on the inserts as the forces exerted by a hardboot setup can delam a board that is not reinforced in that area. Read all the tech articles, search the forums a bit, and ask plenty of questions (in that order, preferably) Welcome to Bomber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abakker Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 i recommend agains the ride with plates at your weight, you could significantly over-torque the inserts and potentially damge the board or yourself. you'd be better off selling that board or keeping it for softboot days. as for boots, i highly recommend demoing a pair before you buy. it is just hard to tell fit and feel any other way. otherwise be willing to re sell a few pair of boots or so to really get it right. with your varied riding style i recommend a boot from the deeluxe line maybe suzuka or track 325 because of the adjustable lock on the cuff. i use it all the time to change the boot stiffness from board to board. as for boards i don't know if this is entirely out of the picture, but the rad air tanker is a great board for plates. it carve well, has good edge hold, and can do a lot of all mountain things. however if you are set on a more carve friendly shape (not twin tip) the prior is a really good board from what i've heard and you will probably have to order it stiffened to your specs. lastly, bindings. right now there are two really top choice makers of bindings out there. Bomber and Catek. the bombers are easier to set up but can require the purchase of lots of different cant and lift disks to get it right as someone new to hardboots. catek on the other hand are infinitely adjustable and are what i ride because i swap boards and cant/lift alot, the downside is that they are harder to setup initially. both bindings are rock solid and perform great on the snow. a note on stepins. i personally don't like them because they make the connection between rider and board too stiff and causes me to lose a feel for the board. some people love them. however if you ride in powder frequently, or plan to ride powder, they can clog up with snow and not clip in, or they will clip in with a wad of snow that totally messes up your carefully set cant/lift. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 as for boots, i highly recommend demoing a pair before you buy. Small Problem... There are only 2 places in the US (that I'm aware of) with demo boots available, and because Mr. Diesel has neglected to share his location...we don't know if he is near either of them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Diesel Junkie Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I just setup my signature and profile. Are there any hardbooter shops in Northern California???? Thanks for the info guys! Do Hardboots have basically any flex side to side? (Meaning front to back on the board.) Would you recommend putting hardboots on my Ride Timeless temporarily to learn hardbooting? or just go for the whole setup with a new board and boots to start with. I have some nice ski boots from about 13 years ago. Are these even worth trying? They are not warn out.. I just committed 100% to boarding back then, and put the ski stuff on a shelf. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I just setup my signature and profile. Are there any hardbooter shops in Northern California???? Thanks for the info guys! Do Hardboots have basically any flex side to side? (Meaning front to back on the board.) Would you recommend putting hardboots on my Ride Timeless temporarily to learn hardbooting? or just go for the whole setup with a new board and boots to start with. I have some nice ski boots from about 13 years ago. Are these even worth trying? They are not warn out.. I just committed 100% to boarding back then, and put the ski stuff on a shelf. Thanks, For Hardboots in NorCal you may want to get in touch with the Tahoe Carver guys. The only shops I am aware of that demo boots are in Colorado and Vermont... I think you could ride the timeless with plates for a while to get the feel of it. Just check the board under the binings every time you go out and be aware of any cracking or delam. Ski boots - there's about a million arguments about that in the forums. When I came back to hardboots a few years ago I started in Salomon boots - very soft, low-end ski boots, and did fine.A lot of people still ride in Flexons too. Changing to SB-specific boots will give you another level of riding though. If you have the means, get the Deeluxe or Head or UPZ boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Instead of riding hard boots on your soft setup you might want to consider running your soft boots at higher angles. You can work them up little by little and really get a feel for boarding while looking towards the nose of the board. The boots don't really have much flex side to side. Most do have cant in the ankle (at least my new ones do). Since the width of your sole is fairly small (in comparison to the height of the boot) most of the side to side flex would be in squishing the soleplates down or maybe a little play in the binding bails. Since you're gonna be running higher angles you don't really want side to side flex though. On a (forgive me for saying it) "normal" board you're facing the edges, but on an alpine board you'll be nearly facing the nose. You're gonna need the side to side stiffness to get that up on edge without breaking your ankles. As for the skiboots. They will work. I used my brothers old ski boots for a while until I could afford/get around to buying actual snowboardin hardboots. The problem is toe-out. I cranked my angles up so high that it was uncomfortable, so I cranked them down until I could just stand it. And then my toe hung out (didn't seem like far, compared to softboots) and I caught it all the time. The sole size on the ski boots was 324 and the sole size on my new boots is 285, and they both fit my feet. There lies the problem (as far as I'm concerned) with ski boots. Others will say they're too stiff, but if you're aggressive and you find a pair that isn't too stiff then they'd probably be alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Are there any hardbooter shops in Northern California???? Not really - Elite Feet at Squaw Valley supposedly carries Head boots. Not sure if they demo. Do Hardboots have basically any flex side to side? (Meaning front to back on the board.) No. There is supposed to be a little bit of side-to-side with standard clip bindings but there is essentially none in my stepins. I find the lack of nose->tail flexibility frustrating in hardboots if I ride flat angles on a soft board, but some people don't seem to mind so much. If you are very used to the soft boots you may be frustrated to lose the same feathery control in the ankles on the toeside edge in hardboots. Heelside feels the same. Again, this is only at flat angles - if you go steeper it's all good. Would you recommend putting hardboots on my Ride Timeless temporarily to learn hardbooting? or just go for the whole setup with a new board and boots to start with. I learned by sticking my hardboots on my Never Summer Premier, which I understand is a similar board to the Timeless (pretty stiff, good all-mountain kind of board). I would recommend jacking the angles up around at least 45 degrees or so as soon as possible, as riding hardboots at softboot angles (I ride 39/21) is just like riding softboots except awkwardly, and not anything like riding hardboots on a carving board. Good luck! There are lots of northern Cal riders on here, and you should also check out tahoecarvers.com. There are regular carvers at Kirkwood, Mt. Rose, Squaw, and Alpine, at least, and some may have extra boots for you to try, depending on your size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Diesel Junkie Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Thanks guys, I have actually been riding my soft boots at steep angles forward on the board for as long as i can remember. Usually more than 45 degrees on the front foot and 30 degrees or so on the back foot. Just shallow enough so i can still ride fakie when i need to(or is convienient) in the technical stuff. Its wierd, I remember seeing all the carve boards and hardboots many many years ago, and then it seemed to just dissappear from the stores and from the slopes. Either that or the whole frestyle snowboarding stuff just exploded in popularity. Now adays nor cal seems to have more boarders than skiiers, which is just wierd if you consider how it was more than 10 years ago. I am going to buy some bindings right away, and maybe some boots. Any recomendations for starting points on cant and toe angles would be much appriciated as well. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinecure Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 There's a guy who posts on Tahoecarvers who rides at Alpine. I suggest you track him down and see if he can help you out. He doesn't post here though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnshapiro Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 I'm near Sacramento. This year I bought a pair of Head Stratus Pro's from Elite Feet at Squaw and I'm thrilled with them. Though I do have to make one more trip back for some more fitting. Buy the boots there and fitting is free (except for your time and gas). Those guys are really good. You might post at http://www.tahoecarvers.com/home.php. Randy Salzman rides at Alpine and has some demo gear. Not sure if he has boots that will fit you, but I think he's got some boards and bindings. I usually ride at Kirkwood (season pass there). Once you get your gear, I'll be happy to spend some time with you to help you get started carving. In addition, there are a bunch of folks that carve at various mountains around Tahoe. Check in at tahoecarvers and you might be able to find someone to ride with. Hope this helps some. Joel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 an all-out alpine board probably wouldnt be best for a guy who wants to ride all over, any condition. There are people who can and do, but its not easy. An all-mountain carver like the prior 4WD would be a great choice... I have no personal experience with the board but hear only good things about it. you wont have to worry about yanking the inserts or delaming the board due to the plate binding stiffness with a board meant for hardboots. If you get deeluxe, you might wind up blowing apart many cant adjusters with your weight and aggression, just my 2 cents. youd probably be happier with a pair of head boots, but you wont know for sure until you try them. The difference in support is great. but hardboots will feel a bit awkward the first few times you use them. You'll notice every little inperfection in the snow surface has a greater impact on you (which is one of the reasons why we love the groom), but after a day or two you adjust and find yourself soaring to a new level of riding, carving circles around your friends, controlling the board at speeds that used to make you pray for mercy, and switching edges with lightning speed. If you want a more forgiving plate binding (better for all-mountain freeriding in bumps crud powder and the like), the F2 bindings on the Bomberonline Store are a great choice. you could also search for Burton/Ibex Raceplates on Klugriding.com. If you want a stiffer binding, go for Bomber TD2s or Catek OS2s (I vote Bombers because of their suspension system, but that's probably the most frequent debate here on BOL:biggthump ). If you find after reviewing the situation hardboots arent for you, Catek makes a great softboot binding, the Freeride 2. The closest you can get to hardbooting without actually hardbooting. Welcome to the hardbooter scene, and happy hunting:cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abakker Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 interestingly enough, when i switched to hardboots, i rode a tanker, not for carving but because i hated softboots, and the first thing i noticed was that i could hit cruddy snow with alot more confidence because with the more solid connectiont to the board i could just hit stuff. just my 2 cents. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 interestingly enough, when i switched to hardboots, i rode a tanker, not for carving but because i hated softboots, and the first thing i noticed was that i could hit cruddy snow with alot more confidence because with the more solid connectiont to the board i could just hit stuff.just my 2 cents. Alex My uneasyness on the crud with hardboots might come from my lighter weight (160). A large guy with a large board can flatten crud no problem. A guy like me gets thrown around a bit. Softboots give me a little more dampning for all the jostling going on, hardboots are a little tougher for me in crud. I hadnt thought of that before, but I guess he'll have to test out the larger guy theory to see what really matters on the crud:cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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