OK what $^%* happened

[biggerwrangler]

my board and i have crashed and i am out with an ankle sprain that doubles as a football!

I was on my heel side carving hard around some gates and the nose started to chatter and I started lose my carve and crashhhhh. hit the gate there goes the ankle.

I noticed this issue firstat high speeds. When on my toe side at high speed it would stick like glue, but on the heel side i would go to stick it and the board would bounce or chatter and or washout. Slow speeds this board is great but turn up and it like trying to race vw bug down railroad tracks.

SO Ye old great gurus of the board, bring on the advice

its a free carve 164 sims

i am 5.6 160

have td2 bindings with some old burton boots

[Dr D]

whats your stance and where are you mounted on the board?

[trikerdad]

my guess is that you're getting in the back seat on your heelside. Because there is a tendency to sit back when on your heels you have to consiously keep pressure on the nose of the board. If it carves well on one side but not the other, it's more likely your technique than a problem with the board.

[biggerwrangler]

whats your stance and where are you mounted on the board?

20 spread lead foot at 60 rear at 55

both mounted mid center of the holes

when i leaned heavy on the nose on the heel side i would get the hops and start bouncing. I sure i am doing something wrong, but i love the feeling when it works right

[trikerdad]

Try moving your bindings one notch forward.

[biggerwrangler]

Try moving your bindings one notch forward.

.

holes on the board or holes on the binding

[trikerdad]

So your bindings are just forward of being centered on the inserts. Usually about 3/8 of an inch.

[dr. sandman]

my board and i have crashed and i am out with an ankle sprain that doubles as a football!................

In the meantime (trikerdad will probably attest to this), have that ankle looked at. Get a specialist and tell him you want to be sure you don't have "snowboarder's fracture" aka fracture of the talar process - not fun - I sat out last year due to a misdiagnosis, trikerdad was diagnosed correctly and is riding again without so much down-time.

Just a thought.

[Dr D]

Try moving your bindings one notch forward.

what he said. depending on your set up you might use the board holes or the binding holes to accomplish it.

definitely get an xray taken of that ankle. preferably a week post accident as a fracture will show up better then than it will right after the crash.

[trikerdad]

Good point Dan, a broken talus bone is probably missed as often as not. And it will not heal by itself, like most bones will.

[Dr D]

A talar fracture may not appear on film for 2 to 4 weeks so a followup film might be necessary. I have had good luck with improved healing times on both ligiment tears and fractures in the foot using something called a wei patch from wei laboratories. The appropriate patch for a frx would be called a whitee patch. for a sprain the right one would be the fasst patch.

weilabs.com

If it isn't broken it may be misaligned and a visit to a sports chiro may improve heal time on the sprain as well.

[Dr D]

Foot Fractures Frequently Misdiagnosed as Ankle Sprains

DANIEL B. JUDD, M.D. and DAVID H. KIM, M.D.

Tripler Army Medical Center, Honolulu, Hawaii

<!-- #BeginLibraryItem "/Library/afp_abstract-pdf.lbi" --><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD vAlign=center align=left>Most ankle injuries are straightforward ligamentous injuries. However, the clinical presentation of subtle fractures can be similar to that of ankle sprains, and these fractures are frequently missed on initial examination. Fractures of the talar dome may be medial or lateral, and they are usually the result of inversion injuries, although medial injuries may be atraumatic. Lateral talar process fractures are characterized by point tenderness over the lateral process. Posterior talar process fractures are often associated with tenderness to deep palpation anterior to the Achilles tendon over the posterolateral talus, and plantar flexion may exacerbate the pain. These fractures can often be managed nonsurgically with nonweight-bearing status and a short leg cast worn for approximately four weeks. Delays in treatment can result in long-term disability and surgery. Computed tomographic scans or magnetic resonance imaging may be required because these fractures are difficult to detect on plain films. (Am Fam Physician 2002;66:785-94. Copyright© 2002 American Academy of Family Physicians.)

</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left></TD><TD vAlign=center align=left><TABLE cellPadding=10 width=170 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=bottom align=left> A PDF version of this document is available. Download PDF now (10 pages /188 KB). More information on using PDF files.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- #EndLibraryItem -->

Ankle injuries are commonly evaluated by primary care and emergency physicians. Most of these injuries do not pose a diagnostic dilemma and can be managed nonsurgically without a prolonged or costly work-up. However, the clinical presentation of some subtle fractures can be similar to that of routine ankle sprains, and they are commonly misdiagnosed as such. Many of these injuries, if left without a definitive diagnosis, result in long-term disability (Table 1).

<TABLE cellPadding=10 align=center border=1 HSPACE="5" VSPACE="5"><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=10><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#b1c88a></TD></TR><TR><TD>TABLE 1

Summary and Comparison of Presented Fractures

<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom><TABLE class=a10 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4><TBODY><TR class=s15 vAlign=bottom><TD vAlign=bottom align=left>Fracture type</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=left>Mechanism of injury</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=left>Important physical examination findings*</TD><TD class=s16 vAlign=bottom align=left>Best plain radiograph†</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=left>Treatment</TD></TR><TR class=s18><TD vAlign=top align=left>Talar dome (lateral) </TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Inversion with dorsiflexion</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Tenderness anterior to the lateral malleolus, along the anterior border of the talus </TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Mortise view: shallow, wafer-shaped lesion</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Stage I or II (see Table 3): NWBSLC for six weeks

Stage III or IV (see Table 3), or persistent symptoms: surgical treatment</TD></TR><TR class=s18 vAlign=top><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>Talar dome(medial)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>Inversion with plantar flexion or atraumatic</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>Tenderness posterior to the medial malleolus, along the posterior border of the talus</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>AP view: deep, cup-shaped lesion; initial radiograph can be normal because changes in subchondral bone may not develop for weeks.</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>Stage I, II, or III (see Table 3): NWBSLC for six weeks

Stage IV (see Table 3): surgical treatment</TD></TR><TR class=s18><TD vAlign=top align=left>Lateral talar process</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Rapid inversion with dorsiflexion </TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Point tenderness over the lateral process (anterior and inferior to the lateral malleolus)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Mortise view; lateral view may show subtalar effusion</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Small fragment with <2 mm displacement: NWBSLC for four to six weeks

Large or displaced fragments: operative treatment</TD></TR><TR class=s18 vAlign=top><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>Posterior talarprocess (lateral tubercle)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>Hyperplantar flexion or forced inversion</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>Tenderness to deep palpation anterior to the Achillestendon over posterolateral talus

Plantar flexion may reproduce pain.</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>Lateral radiograph (anaccessory ossicle, the os trigonum, may be present)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>Minimally displaced fracture: NWBSLC for four to six weeks

Large or displaced fragments or persistent symptoms: operative treatment</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>Posterior talar process (medial tubercle)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Dorsiflexion with pronation</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Tenderness to deep palpation between the medial malleolusand the Achilles tendon</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Difficult with standard views; an oblique ankle radiographtaken with the foot placedin 40 degrees of external rotation has been successful.</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Similar to lateral tubercle fractures</TD></TR><TR class=s18 vAlign=top><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>Anterior process of the calcaneus</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>Inversion withplantar flexion can lead to an avulsion fracture.

Forced dorsiflexion can cause a compression fracture.</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>Point tenderness over the calcanealcuboid joint (approximately 1 cm inferior and 3 to 4 cm anterior to the lateral malleolus)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>Lateral radiograph (an accessory ossicle, the calcaneus secondarium,may be present)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#eaf1e2>Small nondisplaced fracture:nonweight-bearing with compressive dressing or NWBSLC for four to six weeks

Large or displaced fractures may require operative treatment.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>AP = anteroposterior; NWBSLC = nonweight-bearing, short leg cast.

*--Acutely, most fractures will have symptoms very similar to those of ankle sprains: swelling, ecchymosis, ligamentous laxity, tenderness, and decreased range of motion.

†--All of these fractures can have subtle findings on plain radiograph, and computed tomography or magnetic resonance imaging may be required to accurately confirm or characterize a fracture.

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top bgColor=#b1c88a></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

This article features subtle fractures to facilitate timely diagnosis and treatment of these less-common injuries. These fractures should be considered in the differential diagnosis of any acute ankle sprain, as well as any suspected sprain that does not improve with routine treatment (Table 2).

[Joe D]

Great study.

Most talar fractures are not seen on even quality xrays. Tibiotalar / subtalar chondral injuries are not visible either. CT noncontrast of ankle is minimum to diagnose these injuries, and MRI may also be required to eval extent of cartilage damage.

[Mallard_with_a_Gun]

Roughly 99% of the time I "chatter" out is primarily that I have too much weight on my rear foot.

Fer what it s worth amigo, I most certaintly am NOT any form of an expert.

Hope you have a quick recovery, the season is still young! :)

[bumpyride]

Bring your screwdriver and change your settings. Looks like a couple of different ideas already proferred, and who knows which will apply to you, so try them all. Take at least 2 runs on each of the settings and see if you can correct your problem. For me it was too far back in the binding holes, but for you it might not be the same. Also this could be equipment quirks, like board construction, sidecuts etc, or binding profiles working on that particular board.

Liked the advice to get checked out at the Doc's.

[Bullwings]

i just injured my ankle on the 12/26 and it appears to be an ankle sprain. however, today, which is a day over 2 weeks, i got an x-ray to be sure that it's not a talus fracture - i specifically told my doc to give some extra attention to my talus.

bone necrosis is definitely not something i want deal with. look up necrosis pictures... now, imagine that sht going on under your skin and flesh and in your bone.

i think both skatha and big mario have fractured that bone if i'm not mistaken. from what i gathered lurking the boards, skatha's ended up turning into a 2-surgery healing process. i'm not trying to scare you or anything, but i'd rather not throw gasoline on the fire if it can be prevented. gl with that

[Rob Stevens]

There is no problem with asking, but this is a perfect example of what happens when advise is requested, with no clear idea of WHY the problem happens.

Trying to solve your issue with the information given will only create confusion... Kind of like it already is.

When your ankle is better, POST VIDEO. Your feedback will be much clearer.

[RJ-PS]

To be honest, I think you might have found the ceiling of your board. Even if you're a lighter rider, if you are riding hard, a Sims 164 might not be able to track with you. The board is fine for freecarving at moderate speeds. It is just not able to handle the high speeds and irregularity of a race course because it will twist out from underneath you.

It's also possible that the difference in toe side vs heal side is the amount of confidence and therefore flexibility that you allow yourself to give when the chatters begin. For most of us it is much easier to adapt and absorb the jarring on toe side. It is the side that allows us to see what is going on, feel more in control, and therefore be able to control the situation better. On heel side one tends to lock up and become static when nervous and therefore not absorb as well and perhaps ultimately lose the edge when the chatters begin. Still, on a different board that tracks better than a Sims, you might not have had any issues at all.

Hope you heal up quick (but take your time :o )

[biggerwrangler]

The ankle... i have been put in a airboot that i have to wear 24 7

feels l a extra large ski boot! has the jorden pump for extra feel good.

Nothing showed on the xrays checked by 2 doctors. still 3 weeks in the boot however. note to self gates may move, but at speed they sure doesn't feel like it.

ok

with everybody advice i think i have this to go on.

You say move the bindings foward, even thou at moderate speeds the board handles ok. great idea but can't be sure of the effect untill i try it. which will be sometime before i can dig in to it

althou reaching the limits of the board has also occured to me. .

I have also been thinking I should just pony up the $$$ and go to bomber and demo some new ones!

i wanted to thank everybody for there input on the matter.

current temp in denver -2 -20 in the mountains. prefect weather, blue day nobody on the mountain cause it cold and icy prefect craving day. GO get some!

I encourge everybody to atleast put a run down a nastar course, i know there are much better people out there then me. nastar finals are near the end of march and free ticket at steamboat if you qualify along with bragging rights.

may seem whimpy but you have to start some where.

[Gleb]

icy...lol. I hope to make it out there soon to see these "icy" conditions. Get well man, and kick some ass!

[todd]

Not sure about the "icy" either. In Basalt, right now it is 38 degrees. Snowing, but still melting on the ground. But "lots" of snow is on the way, and temps are supposed to drop drastically.

Yes, currently ideal conditions for carving. And after 5 days of snow, and people packing it down, maybe we will have some good carving next week. (sorry to rub it in to all those out east. I really wish you guys would get some snow)