small boards for crowded slopes

[jtslalom]

I went up to Sugarbush Vermont this past weekend with my 166 Rossi and my 153 Volkl. Sugarbush has some nice wide trails and some narrow trails. I rode both types. I rode the 166 for half a day and the 153 for a day and a half. For a few runs I rode with a guy riding a softer and longer Burton carving board. I was on the 153 RennTiger. He told me that he had never seen anyone make such tight turns as I did. I told him my board was a 153 and his mouth dropped. Where I normally ride, the slopes are narrow and crowded. I ride my 166 Rossi about 30% of the time and the 153 about 60%. It seems like most people on this site ride much longer boards. I was wondering how many people have ridden or consistently ride a board smaller than a 160cm board. Most people I run into seem to on a 160 - 190 cm boards.

[Guest deanj]

I ride a 160 Hot Blast on my tiny local hill. I have a Renntiger 168 as well, but the 160 has been out nearly all year. A fellow rider rides a 158 RT and we have a handful of others out on short boards. Short boards have been a lot of fun, although a little more demanding of good (quick) timing. :D

[mirror70]

I've been riding my 153 F2 Speedster SL almost exclusively this season. That's primarily because it rides so much nicer than my FP164, but I also love ripping quick deep carves on the short board. Of course, it helps a lot that I'm light enough that I don't need the extra edge of the 164.

[Strider]

I ride a 178 Nidecker and a 169 Burton FP. With that said I just bought a 160 Rossi X-VAS because the other boards are just too long at my tiny hill. They work great in a closed course GS run and out west, but otherwise by the time I really get them ripping I'm at the bse again, or trying to weave around 20 kids stopped in the middle of the hill. I'm really looking forward to riding the shorter board and making some nice short radius turns.

[garyj]

At 6"1' and 200 + lbs it could be agrued that my 164 FP in too small. Much of my carving time is spent negotiating the masses at Mammoth/June during peak times (June is not so bad) and the smaller board has served me well. I am still able to ride with fellow carvers on longer boards and keep up, but with the smaller board comes more and tighter turns which requires stronger legs and more endurance---something I am trying to impove.

[KeithB]

I ride a 162 Hot Shine. Since I'm only 5'5", 135 lbs, I would say that is a comparatively long board (does anyone recall the rider weight to board length ratio discussion from the old forum?). Regardless of that, the short turning radius allows me to make as many aggressive, quick turns as I can crank out in the paltry 300 feet of vertical at my home resort. It makes even a small area like this actually fun for a few hours. At a real mountain (when I was at Steamboat, for instance), it enables me to control my speed better on steeper runs than a GS board would allow. And in the tight trails of the east (e.g. Tremblant) that get bumped up quickly, the longer radius board that I was riding just didn't seem to have enough room to run.

Therefore, I'm beginning to conclude that for versatility (different pitches, different surfaces, different trail designs) and for a small rider like me, a mid- to short-radius board (8-10 meters) is ideal. However, if I had the bank to support a quiver like many of those in this community, I could see myself on a GS board early in the morning on specific trails at a big resort, and then later switching to an SL board or an all-mountain freecarving board (e.g. Coiler All Mountain Extreme, Donek Axis) in order to explore the rest of the mountain.

[Guest Jagger]

nd you always have to be looking out for skid turning skiers, so Iwas thinking an SL type board may actualy be beter for around here, any thoughts?

[KeithB]

Yes, a short turning board would definitely assist in navigating through the less-skilled masses.

Also, a lot of the thrill in alpine riding (for me, anyway) are the g-forces involved in a very powerful turn. I love the rebound and the acceleration into the new turn. I can experience that more readily on an SL board than a damp, stable GS or longer-radius freecarve board. I like to put a lot of work into the turn to get this rebound, but that's my style. Some others might prefer taking the GS board for a ride and letting it build the speed for you. Either way, it requires a lot of leg strength an focus on technique. I think both boards can be fun; I just feel that the board choice is a little dependent upon the mountain that your riding that day.

[Mike Tokar]

Even though it's 177cm, my Coiler All Mountain seems to have no problem with tight radius turns due to the relatively small 11.5m sidecut. Most of the time I'm riding in PA on 1000' of vert, and crowds are part of the equation most of the time.

It's also stiff enough to handle the speed when I'm trying to keep up with friends on longer (and longer sidecut) boards. Even though I'm the stereotypical quiver-haver, my other boards are getting used less and less.

I feel like my next board will just be another All Mountain, (maybe a little less stiff?), because I love its' versatility so much.

What's typical for a sidecut range for slalom vs. GS? I figured a GS would be around 13-14m, Super G around 15-16? I'm sure flex makes a big difference in the equation also.

MT

[KeithB]

Mike,

That's great to hear about the All Mountain Extreme since that is currently the board I have been thinking about getting next. Unfortunately, though, I might have to wait a couple years until that purchase.

From what I've seen, the SL boards are typically 8-10 meters, and the GS boards are 13-15 m. Boards like your Coiler fill the gap nicely. I haven't seen many SGS boards except for Coiler's, which have 17 and 17+ meter radii.

I agree that flex should be factored into that equation as well. The difference between a soft and a stiff board, given the same sidecut radius, is that the softer board would attain that radius in a turn at a slower speed than the stiffer board. In other words, it takes less force to flex the board; since that would occur at a slower speed, the softer board would be considered easier to maneuver. Then of course, as you know, the stiffer board would be more stable at higher speeds than the softer one.

That kinda begs the question: Which would be easier to handle in tight situations? A stiff SL board with, say, a 9 m sidecut radius, or a softer, all mountain board with an 11 m sidecut?

KB

[Mike Tokar]

I'd be afraid of a smaller radius board being too squirrely in most situations, so I'd opt for the longer sidecut, longer length and REASONABLE amount of flex. (That said, I'm an older, heavier lazier kind of rider that would tire quickly on an SL board.)

I'm sure flex characteristics could be debated by a lot of people on this site - first a consistent scale by which to measure it (thread on the old site?) and then the 'black art' of where the board flexes most.

I think Bruce V has done some refining on where the flex is best to provide both stability at speed and flex when/where you need it. Hence the term - SBT (SuperBoard Technology) I've seen Dave Morgan do some beautiful carves on a narrow steep trail on an SBT board that I think had about a 14M sidecut with somewhere between 180-185cm in length.

That combo seems ideal, but it's just my preference.

[KeithB]

Mike,

Since I'm a small guy who likes to put a lot of energy into his turns, I can get away with an SL board. But I agree; the shorter board could be too squirrelly for a lot of riders.

Yeah, I was wondering if I would get a backlash for my comments on flex.

Your comments about Bruce and Dave give me even more confidence to go with Coiler next time I purchase a board. By the time I purchase it, I plan on living in the Denver area (early 2006). So I think I will welcome the bigger radius (medium, really) of the All Mountain since I will have access to much bigger mountains.

Dave, thanks for your comments, too. I can't wait to demo an All Mountain!

KB

[Mike T]

I'll definitely second Mike Tokar's comment about stability at speed and flex when/where you need it. I'm on the 184 Pure Race, which is a lot of board compared to what I'm used to, but I can crank turns just as tight as on my Axis 172, which has 3,m smaller sidecut radius. It's saved my @$$ on about a done occasions just in the first 3 days on the board... I get going fast (dampness and stability sure are fun!) then come to a steeper section and, just before head into the trees for certain death, I manage to pull out a turn I didn't think I was capable of.

Back to the thread topic, the smaller boards I've ridden haven't necessarily been easier in crowds. Along with crowds come bumped out snow. I'm not a small fellow - 190 pounds - and I actually had more problems on a Donek FC 163 than I do on my new 184. I could change edges on that 163 faster than fast, but keeping it on track on less than ideal groomers has always been a challenge for me... making it kinda scary in crowds. My Coiler is much better at tracking on ice and my Axis is better at slcing through crud so I just pick betwwen those two.