Dr D Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 I have heard of cases Chiros making a problem worse, and people requiring regular visits to the the Chiro, which imply that they are fixing symptom, but not the problem...) quite the contrary a full plan of care is required to remodel soft tissue and restore functional range of motion. the one that sees you one or two visits is treating symptoms. the one who wants you to follow thru even though your symptom of pain is gone is the one seeking to eliminate the cause. a specific chiro will only adjust the few segments involved. It is possible for a general manipulation without regard to your specific problem to agravate the symptoms. I suggest choosing your provider wisely just like you choose anything else. there are good ones and bad ones just like mechanics and MD's and baby sitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 unscientific but interesting on average roughly 10% of the population uses a chiropractor. this poll so far shows 41% which is great. I suspect that any group of athletes would turn out the same. at the professional level chiropractic is widely used in many sports. Almost always as a performance enhancer and a hedge against injury. The aforementioned proactive approach. Its great to be a part of a group so dedicated to a sport that they want to maintain their ability to participate far into the future:biggthump :biggthump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 I put my neck out really badly on a leg press, went to a great chiro to get it fixed. I then went every time I needed "fixing", but then a few years ago started developing real problems with headache and upper back pain between the shoulders. I was referred to a totally brilliant chiro in Calgary, who did X-rays and posture exams and the whole nine yards, and discovered that I had about a 3 deg reverse curve in my neck (your spine is supposed to curve through toward your throat, mine curved the other way). A degenerative problem like that would normally be causing HUGE issues and all sorts of damage. Seems 10+ years of lifting heavy weights had give me such incredibly strong bones that there wasn't any damage at all, and after 2 years of every 2 week treatments, it's back to normal, and my lopsided posture is fixed as well. Such a success story, that I was used as a clinical example in one of his presentations (cool). The maintenance program seems to work, and recently he's been doing active release on a persistent elbow problem. He taught me a technique I can do at home, and for the first time in years, this injury is starting to heal. I go once every three weeks, more often if I have a bad gym or snowboard ouchie that needs fixing. So yes, for sure - they work. It also helps that all three of the chiros in this clinic are total eye candy and really nice guys as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uku Posted April 29, 2006 Report Share Posted April 29, 2006 In my country I've had positive experience only. I'v been to both private and state facilities and loved them both. Really felt better after visiting one. For example i could really stretch more after visiting a chiro twice about 2 months ago. Plus I could move around more freely at my BJJ sessions. I was really suprised how many cracks he got out of my neck and backbone. Just make sure you visit a professional and you should be alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted April 29, 2006 Report Share Posted April 29, 2006 Sometimes they make it worse..well it feels worse because the frequent visits are to put your body or back to where it needs to be after years of bieng out.. your muscle have sized to where its at ..so your soreness is cause you are moving you tendens and muscles to where they should be and it may be strecthing them.. the frequent visits at first is to try to get you mucsle and stuff from going back to its bad position..kinda like training them to where they should be.. That is what was told to me but after about a month our too.. I really started feeling better..everywhere I have serious issues with my lower back and neck ,,the neck was so far off that it pull my head to one side and forward.. after chiro my digestive system started to work better.. Walked up right better.. So it worked for me..but I did my research and talked to all different ones before I made my choice to who to go to..cause even though some is covered by insurance its costly in the begining.. good luck... but it feels awesome when ya go.. like getting a 30 dollar massage in 10 minutes.. you feel like nothing happened then you wake up in the morning and your sore..wierd.. Hey go to Dr. D he is in Big Mountain..then you can ride too.. Shred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipuppy Posted April 29, 2006 Report Share Posted April 29, 2006 I had a chiropractor after I got rearended on the freeway. It was amazing how much he loosened up my neck but I found myself in pain afterwards. What I found that helped the most, would be to go to the chiropractor and then go swimming afterwards- it just helped everything relax and stretch out. Many ski resorts (at least the ones where I've asked) offer massive discounts on chiropractors or massage therapists (sp?) or even offer the services free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted April 29, 2006 Report Share Posted April 29, 2006 I guess I should clear up a few misconceptions since I am the resident chiropractor.the only documented major risk factor for chiropractic is stroke occurring after a rotational adjustment of the cervical spine. that being said the gross majority of the documented cases were manipulation performed by someone other than a chiropractor. That would be spouse, barber, orthopedist etc. It is also important to note that while fewer than 2-3 cases of stroke a year are attributed to cervical manipulation (not necessarily by a chiropractor) over 1500 people die each year from tylenol. so like anything else you really need to compare apples to apples. chiropractic is statistically much safer than any of the alternatives out there. You can further reduce your risk by choosing techniques that don't involve rotation. Activator or Gonstead would be good choices and Diversified would be the one with the most rotation. Chiropractors nationwide are required to have a minimum core group of hard science credits before entering chiropractic school. no state including texas allows them to enter straight from highschool. currently florida is the only state that requires the Bachelor's degreeto be completed before starting graduate school. Almost all states require that one be completed before licensing. required credits are the usual freshman year fluff english etc. 2 semesters each of chemistry chemistry lab Organic chem org chem lab Biology biology lab physics physics lab psychology Licensing is a four part national board test with some states requiring an additional physical therapy board. chiropractic school itself is nationally accredited graaduate level work totalling 3 and a half years straight through with no breaks longer than two weeks. totalling over 30 credit hours per semesters in the early years. compared side by side with a general practioner MD curriculum very little is different. no pharmacology or surgery classes. these would be replaced by technique classes. there is actually more chemistry and much more nutrtion. Chiropractors are trained as gateway physicians. that is to say that they are required to diagnose and treat or refer to a specialist just as an Md would be. Research dollars are hard to get so fewer research projects have been done. there is however lots of research done in the medical field that supports chiropractic. Chiropractic is based not on bones but on the nervous system. It simply states that the body is controlled by the brain through the pathways of the nervous system. Chiropractors look for musculo-skeletal problems that might create pressure on the nerves interfering with that communication. An adjustment is given to remove the interference. more later I have patients now those are the classes i'll have finished by the end of next year. Well actually only one semester of orgo lab, but 2 of orgo. If I wanted to do a premed minor all i have to take is 2 more classes. Orgo lab 2 as well as physics 2 + lab. Might go for that just to add something to the resume. Almost all medical fields I know of require those as basic courses which makes me really wonder why physics is needed. I guess they want you to be well rounded... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted April 29, 2006 Report Share Posted April 29, 2006 those are the classes i'll have finished by the end of next year. Well actually only one semester of orgo lab, but 2 of orgo. If I wanted to do a premed minor all i have to take is 2 more classes. Orgo lab 2 as well as physics 2 + lab. Might go for that just to add something to the resume. Almost all medical fields I know of require those as basic courses which makes me really wonder why physics is needed. I guess they want you to be well rounded... Its the basic premed curriculum. I don't know about the rest of the medical arts per say but as a chiropractor physics is a huge part of what I do. Its all angles and speed. I would have to describe adjusting as similiar to the magician pulling the tablecloth off the table without moving the dishes. I don't sit down and do the math mind you but the application of the basic concepts is integral to most of my day. We also do structural analysis of the spine on xray and many techniques take this to the nth degree. Take the classes gleb you'll need options if we are ever successful shutting down the drug dealers:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted April 29, 2006 Report Share Posted April 29, 2006 wow i had no idea so my physics is involved. The only thing keeping me from taking physics 2 is that its on mondays wednesdays and fridays. Those are the days next snowseason that i have no classes. Its really conflicting. I might try to take it elsewhere but my school is a dick about accepting credits from other school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skatha Posted April 29, 2006 Report Share Posted April 29, 2006 Sorry, I know 3 chiropractors personally in TX that started chiropractic school from high school. I was told of the lack of degree requirements by a chiropratic school student in 1986. As for vertebral artery dissection, it's happened more than once and it's happened at the hands of chiropractors.In fact, most of the neurologists I know can name one or more patients in their professional experience that suffered a bad neurologic outcome at the hands of a chiropractor. I find it's kinda funny that I go on the message board and post a supportive message, but the chiropractor gets on and posts that I'm an idiot. If chiropractic care was a scientifically supported as implied, I'm not sure the practitioners would have to get as defensive. As for the asthma sufferers out there, don't worry, when you see somebody like me in the ER, you will get bronchdilators and immune response modulators, not a spinal manipulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timinor Posted April 29, 2006 Report Share Posted April 29, 2006 Educating ourselves (and then doing it daily) about stretching, yoga and strengthening the core with exercises like pilates and throw in swimming is far better than going to a chiropractor. I would trust a good physical therapist who would guide you to such a program before I would trust a chiropractor who tells you he will solve all your ailments...all you have to do is come 3 times a week for...uh...ever. We all know this but most of us are too busy or lazy to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoasticerider Posted April 30, 2006 Report Share Posted April 30, 2006 Until i hit my late 40.s and a chiropractor diagnosed what a bunch of doctors could not find....2 pinched nerves one in the neck and one in the low back......Both responded to occasional corrections but actually need cortisone shots to stay active........30 plus years of leaning over a light table in the printing industry.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadx Posted April 30, 2006 Report Share Posted April 30, 2006 <O:p</O:pAs for vertebral artery dissection, it's happened more than once and it's happened at the hands of chiropractors.In fact, most of the neurologists I know can name one or more patients in their professional experience that suffered a bad neurologic outcome at the hands of a chiropractor. I find it's kinda funny that I go on the message board and post a supportive message, but the chiropractor gets on and posts that I'm an idiot.<O:p></O:p> If chiropractic care was a scientifically supported as implied, I'm not sure the practitioners would have to get as defensive.<O:p></O:p> <O:p</O:p <O:p</O:p<O:p</O:p Honestly, I didn't see anything in any of Dr. D's posts that looked defensive. And he was agreeing that there was slight risk of stroke with certain manipulations. He said that was one of the only major risk factors. <O:p</O:p <O:p</O:p To quote Dr. D. <O:p</O:p "The only documented major risk factor for chiropractic is stroke occurring after a rotational adjustment of the cervical spine. that being said the gross majority of the documented cases were manipulation performed by someone other than a chiropractor. That would be spouse, barber, orthopedist etc. It is also important to note that while fewer than 2-3 cases of stroke a year are attributed to cervical manipulation (not necessarily by a chiropractor) over 1500 people die each year from tylenol. so like anything else you really need to compare apples to apples. chiropractic is statistically much safer than any of the alternatives out there. You can further reduce your risk by choosing techniques that don't involve rotation. Activator or Gonstead would be good choices and Diversified would be the one with the most rotation."<O:p</O:p <O:p</O:p Seems straight forward, to me, that he was agree with you on the risk (and elaborating on techniques) and not getting defensive. and the risk comparison was to kind of put it in perspective. <O:p</O:p <O:p</O:p Back to the subject...<O:p</O:p As with anything, there are risks. I'm sure How many have read about doctors botching things (like amputating the wrong limb, overdosing patients, etc.) It happens. But it's very rare when you consider the amazing amount of people that receive care at hospitals on a daily basis. If a person perceives an action as not worth the risk, that is their decision. And everyone has a different reaction to risk. Some people won't fly in an airplane because they thing it would be horrible to crash and it's not worth the risk. So they drive instead. And, of course, they are way more likely to die in a car wreck covering the same number of miles than a plane. They may even know and understand that, but to them, it's not worth the 'risk'. <O:p</O:p <O:p</O:p From personal experience and the experience of others that I know personally (I'm not including 'heard about', 'read about', or 'friend of a friend'), I have only heard positive experiences at chiropractors. To me and many, the benefits far outweigh the slight risk involved, which seems statistically miniscule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 come on! live your life on the edge! thats why we snowboard, isn't it? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadx Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Good point, Gleb. But personally, I don't consider snowboarding as being really extreme. Nor motocross, street bikes, wakeboarding, or any of the other things I enjoy regularly. To me, the extreme meter starts to tickle when you start talking about things like sky diving, base jumping, street luge, etc. Or heli-skiing/boarding. All things I think I would REALLY get a kick out of, but, for various reasons, don't think I'm really up for taking up at this point. ;) I guess that's one more example of different people having a different comfort level. One person will say "street luge isn't really all THAT dangerous. You should do it." And the next person will say, "you ride a motorcycle?! So you are saying you have a death wish then?" :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 I used to think chiropractors were in that quack doctor/holistic medicine/chakra aura camp (i.e. that's fine if you believe it but don't manipulate my body based on it), but then I saw one because my back was giving me some problems (sciatic nerve issues making my leg and foot go tingly and weak, and I had very painful muscle spasms around those vertebrae). It was really professional and "scientific." He did about 10 quick resistance tests in 2 or 3 minutes and ruled out a whole bunch of stuff, diagnosed it as my sciatic nerve, cracked my back bones, and gave me a set of exercises to do, and my back has been fine since. Pretty great experience. I haven't needed to see one since, but if I had a weird chronic muscular/skeletal problem again I would probably see both my orthopod and a chiro to get two opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 Sorry, I know 3 chiropractors personally in TX that started chiropractic school from high school. I was told of the lack of degree requirements by a chiropratic school student in 1986.As for vertebral artery dissection, it's happened more than once and it's happened at the hands of chiropractors.In fact, most of the neurologists I know can name one or more patients in their professional experience that suffered a bad neurologic outcome at the hands of a chiropractor. I find it's kinda funny that I go on the message board and post a supportive message, but the chiropractor gets on and posts that I'm an idiot. If chiropractic care was a scientifically supported as implied, I'm not sure the practitioners would have to get as defensive. As for the asthma sufferers out there, don't worry, when you see somebody like me in the ER, you will get bronchdilators and immune response modulators, not a spinal manipulation. sorry Skatha I didn't mean to imply that you are an idiot. I was just clearing up a common misconception. The Accredittation standards have no doubt changed over the years, what I posted is the current standard. You can follow up at Palmer.edu or Sherman.edu. Vertebral dissection has happened although more commonly with manipulation than with adjustment and more commonly by non certified or non qualified people than with chiropractors. techniques vary from no risk to moderate risk. And just like bad mechanics and bad MDs and bad piano players there are a few. Iwould not let any one work on me without the proper workup and films. those are no brainer things though. Most importantly though is perspective, acetametaphin causes 1500 deaths per year on average. that is significantly higher than VAD by manipulation ever dreamed of being. For the record if I ever need to be in an ER I hope someone like you is there to help me. In the mean time I will continue to live a wellness lifestyle in hopes that being proactive will help keep me from having to be reactive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 The trust issue is a big one for the profession. A study was done recently asking people if they trusted various professions. the highest rating believe it or not was the nurse. I would chalk that up to the interaction level of the relationship. nurses were in the low eighties percentage wise. MD's were roughly fifty percent and Chiropractors were rated at about 37 percent. I don't remember the exact numbers. It is also interesting to note that there were 375 million visits to MD's in 2000 and 625 million to alternative practitioners as a group. chiropractors would be the bulk of that group. Since only 1.5% of the population has an appointment currently with a Chiropractor and only 7-10% have ever used one that would mean that there are a lot of people out there not going to any kind of Practitioner mainstream or otherwise. the 625 million figure is up from 425 million five years previous and the 375 million is down from 388 million. hopefully that means that people are taking better care of themselves and emergency doctors can concentrate on traumas and really interesting and rare diseases instead of a bunch of people seeking meds.:D I am in the business I am to help people just as Skatha is I am sure. I am happy with that. I don't feel like there is a competition happening we just aren't in the same business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO'Brien Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nothing but a bunch of wacko's IMHO. Rather waste my money on Tea leaf readers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 this leads me to ask, have you ever gone to a chiropractor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nothing but a bunch of wacko's IMHO. Rather waste my money on Tea leaf readers. all professions have their fringe elements:cool: I have one in the building next door that is clearly a "wacko" and he might even read tea leaves if asked. I would have to say that he is very much the minority though. Probably best to shop around a little before branding 60,000 people. I like to see unqualified dissent like this it adds a sort of ironic twist to the wacko comment:lol: :lol: John, please elaborate. I assume you had a bad experience somewhere?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Heh, my Chrio is a hardbooter as well. He's won USASA national titles every year in the Mahuna division, I think. Either way, I've only had to go to him once 2 years ago when I broke some ribs. Stupid trees just jumped out of nowhere. Anyhoo, I had done the whole doctor thing and they told me there wasn't much I could do about it. they x-rayed me and told me I probably had just bruised things, but after a few weeks nothing was even remotely better, in fact it was worse. I went to him and he did a whole set to my back, told me not to lift my arm over my head for a few days, and I was set! A miracle, I tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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