hangten247

Pat, I am curious, how many days of riding did you get in before they gave out? Also, I am in no means trying to be antagonistic, but charging/discahrging once every month is high maintenance? That takes 1 minute of your time to put them on full blast and discharge them. Later, it takes 1 minute to plug them in and recharge, and when charged, 1 minute to unplug them. I don't have the directions in front of me, but I don't remember the once a month step. I do remmeber the reccommendation of turning them on full blast at the end of the day of each use to fully discharge them, and that is to insure the memory of the battery will retain a full charge. If you do blow this step off, the batteries will definitely not last.

Holly, one more thing, I'm not trying to be Ralph Nader or the CPSC, but because you have nerve damage, just be a little cautios with the disposable warmers. They do heat up quite a bit, everyone's feet are different, but I did have a customer once who complaied about them being too hot/almost burned. (1 out of about 10,000 though) You WILL definitely notice the heat with the disposable warmers, I'd just keep it in the back of my head in case the nerve damage has made your toes completely insensitive to heat. Buy the warmers that are in the shape of the toe with an adhesive back, don't buy the square ones without adhesive, those are more like pocket warmers, they would be way too bulky and would move around.

Tim, you didn't mention your foot and/or mondo size? I have size 13 feet and I finally switched to snowboard specific hardboots because of the long bootsole the skiboots had. This allowed me to start at a higher angle than my softies, but not so ridiulously high I was uncomfortable. The pogression to higher angles from then on out was fairly rapid. If you have big feet and only have the ski boots, then use them, it may just take a few days to get the carving down. It shouldn't be a severe handicap though, I'd say more of an inconvenience.

My 2005 Deeluxe boots' box doesn't have a plane on it, yours must be a different model year? I could always improvise with a sharpie though!

Hi! Let me jump in for a minute. I don't know a Coiler's degrees of side or bottom bevel, but what likely happened to you today is that the side and bottom bevel were not duplicated like they came from the factory, were probably shallower than factory spec, and likely they de-tuned the edges too much. If you are lucky, hopefully they were not detuned by taking a file at a 45 degree angle to the edges. Tunes are going to vary from place top place. You need to know the factory specs as a baseline for next time. Typically, and unfortunately, most shops set themselves up for tuning jib boards, so that ususally means zero degree side, and zero degree base most likely. Not to mention the overkill on the detune. I don't grind my bottom unless I have done a major base repair. Usually, I just do my edges and then clean the base before I do a good hotwax job. I find for me that about 1 degree base with a 2 degree side works well for my needs, good sharpness, and good longevity between tunes, recreational carving, not racing. Once you go smaller than 90 degrees ratio from side to base edge,(trapezoid, as in 1 degree base with 2 degree side, OR 1 degree base with 3 degree side for example), you will increase your edge grip in the snow, but decrease the longevity of the edge sharpness. A 90 degree offset from side to bottom will last longer (a right angle)(0 deg side, w/ 0 deg base OR 1 deg side w/ 1 deg base OR 2 deg side w/ 2 deg base, etc). If you cannot tune yourself, you'll need to find a tuner who will listen to you rather than just pump out a 'production line' tune up. If you find a guy who will listen to you, or who already is schooled in how to tune alpine boards, then the board should be consistent from one tune up to the next.

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FYI If you are trying to reply to cliffh's td1's, or oldsnowboards discs, or any other threed, hit "reply", to the respective thread, not "new thread", and while you are at it, delete the 2 threads you started. ;) just tryin' to help!

What is your mondo point size? Reason is that a 29.5 is a different shell size than a 30.0. If you are a "small' 29.5, then a 29.0 shell should work fine, as a 29.0 and 29.5 use the same shell size. You don't want to go too big, so unless you are definitely a 30, then avoid a 30.0 if possible, unless you haev a high volume foot.

Holly, I've been lucky enough not to have cold feet problems. I have no experience with the heatshields. I have seen one or two folks with the boot gloves and they have said that they have helped a little. I have never heard of the thermic brand you mentioned. More useful info: I have worked at shi/snowboard shops going on 23 years now. I have seen other boot warming companeis come and go, but hotronic has outlasted them all. I'd go with this brand over any other company, they have been around awhile, are reasonably durable, and have replacement parts readily available. This plus they are a popular brand so most every shop carries them and/or have heard of them. So I would choose them over any other electric boot heater product. If your feet perspire (and they do), the dampness may contribute to cold feet. I know some folks who spray their foot with an anti-perspirant at the beginning of the day. no sweat=no clammy feet. If your feet are damp from perspiration, your body (and your heated footbed) work hard to keep your feet at a comfy temp. So buy and wear appropriate socks, not gym socks or cotton socks, but real ski/snowboard socks that are thin, smooth, tall, and made of appropriate material. Don't wear those socks to the Mtn, but change into them just before going from the lodge to the lift. Bring an extra pair to change out of after lunch if necessary. Carry a small towel to wipe your damp feet at lunch if necessary. Whether you have a custom footbed or not, I'd opt for the Hotronic with the custom footbed option. The stock footbed from hotronic is flat, wont give much support. The custom footbed model come with the heat discs and no footbed, plus some adhesive cambrelle material. This way, you cut a slit on your footbed for the heating disc. Then, with the supplied adhesive cambrelle, you lay it over the footbed to hold it in place. If you don't have a custom footbed, cosider getting one, that may help improve your circulation I have been told. To me it makes sense, if your foot is molded on a custom footbed it will have better circulation because when riding it will be in its natural state, not being allowed to spread out and mush out onto a flat unsupportive generic footbed. I do know a custom footbed will allow you to have more room in a boot. I ride a 29.0 mondo boot and I have a size 13 foot. without a custom footbed my toes would be jammed. More room=more comfort. The trick with any electric boot heater product is to read the instructions, adn have reasonable expectations. This type of product (hotronic or otherwise) is not meant to heat up a cold foot, but rather to maintain and acceptable temp. You probably wont notice them working until you shut them off. The battery technology is advanced more than they used to be, but there are still shortfalls. The higher you set them, the shorter the battery will last that day. I reccomend for most folks to turn them up while on the lift, and turn them down when going downhill. The lower the temp setting, the longer the charge for the day. Fulll blast and not tuning them down wont last until lunch. Turn them on full blast the last run and leave the heaters on until fully discharged, that way the battery will accept a full charge for the next time. They have other cool accessories too, like a pair of extra long cable so you can snake it up to your pockets to adjust rather than bending over every time you get on and off the lift. Plus, it eliminated the worry of the battery pack getting thrashed, popping off, or sheared off while riding the lift, riding down the mountain, or worse yet, falling.

Oldsnowboards, true, I am on eBay myself frequently, and know most of the things you mentioned. But I'm just as 'little' player compared to you, I stick to the product I know, pretty narrow focus of the types of product I deal with, and that came about quite by accident as well. If I think I can flip it and safely make a little margin on someting, I grab it. Just trying to make my way up the food chain with my own equipment with as little out of pocket as possible. Heck I was on a SuperModel with Race Plates and ancient Burton Reactors just 2 seasons ago. Now I have a used carving board with TD step ins, and brand new boots with intec heels. mybe I'll haev a new Donek in a season or two. The boards being auctioned that I pointed out looked a bit more unusual than the run-of-the-mill cruisers and backhills I have seen as of late. I cant imagine paying the listing fees for some of these items to just be "testing the waters", but I have not looked at the listing fee schedule for high priced items as of late to see how much of a $$ gamble it would be to just be 'fishing' for a buyer. With some of those prices, it would appear that they are trying to fish for a Great White Shark in the Great Lakes, just trying to find something that is not there. I'll leave the collecting to you. I've never been much of a collector. Believe me I've tried before several times with other items, I just don't get any satisfaction from collecting. Good luck in your search for a display venue. I know I'd surely like to check it out someday when you get up and running.

Ceratinly this stuff has SOME value, but $5000? www.oldsnowboards.com, is this stuff really worth it?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7135890622 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7137949967 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7137199805 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7138069536

LMAO, PMP, that one liner definitely made my day!

I wonder if the 2x hole is an attempt to: A) eliminate the flat spot under one's foot/feet when carving a turn (less inserts to bind the board while flexing) b) to allow a more natural flex of the board due to less inserts c) to allow better edge hold as the board: hug the terrain better as the holes are down the midpoint of the board, further from the edge, more natural tortional twisting of the board with this pattern? Those have gotta be some real strong inserts though,even if they are on a freestyle/freeride board and not a carving board.

Enzo, there's a shop in Hampton Falls that advertises DEELUXES on eBay all the time, and they also publish their 800 number for direct contact off eBay. They have a few of last years models, and also I noticed in the last week on their new listings that they have started to drop the prices a little on this years Indy and Suzuka. At the moment, the best deal is probably on the bright orange Indys right now. Have you tried the StartinGate at Stratton yet? I know they still have some limited sizes in the orange Indys too, but I cant remember how low those are now. I would have bought last years orange Indys from them but they didn't have my size so I ended up buying this years red ones.

OK, back on topic.... Lucky for me I'm big enough to intimidate the liftie to either let me put it in myself or take it inside the gondy. Seriously though, I've had little issues, lifties have been cool about me putting my own board in or they have been careful enough themselves, they can (usually) separate me from the average spore setup by the gear I am carrying. I seem to remember riding a gondy somewhere where they had ski slots on the outside, but had a snowboard adapter which slid right into it that would accomodate snowboards. If it was a busy enough day and they happened to be out of the adapters at that moment, we'd carry our boards inside the gondy, and usually not at full capacity due to carrying the boards inside.

One stop round trip flight from Boston to Vail purchased through expedia....$280.00 picked up at Eagle County airport by my friend....Free public bus from lake Creek Village to Vail...a couple of bucks round trip,( or free if the driver is cool.) Crashing on the couch at my friend's apartment at Lake Creek village....Free (or if not, happy to buy him beer and wings on me one night) 5 days lift tickets at Vail/Beaver Creek....Free (Thanks to friend's brother's Vail employee freebie tickets) Low budget groceries for the week purchased outside of the resort at a grocery store.......$100 Ability to wear my Billy Bob teeth while riding up on the gondy next to a mink wearin' plastic surgery addicted self-important woman (while drooling on her mink)....PRICELESS!

....which is the main reason that I make sure that I bring my Billy Bob teeth with me. I pop in my teeth before getting on the gondy. My buddy plays the straight guy (as in a COMEDY team), and then I proceed to act like I came to the mountain on the short bus. I make sure I drool a little and dont blow my nose, make sure I wipe on my sleeve. Grunt, snort, talk repetetively in one sylable words, like T.S. Garp on his death bed......"Carve? CAAAAARRRVVVEEEE!!!! Carve? I carve! Carve? Carve!" ....Rock back and forth in my seat. It usually makes for an interesting ride up the EagleBahn gondola at Vail, especially when they see Simple Simon dismount from the gondy and rip the trail to shreds. P.C.? of course not. Funny as Hell? you betcha! Also see thread: "THINGS HEARD IN THE LIFT LINE"

Yep, that's eBay for ya! I paid about that much for mine last year, mine was (and still is) like new. I actually bid on this one too, but I'm glad somone else beat my proxy. I have a buddy in mind for it if I had managed to grab it. I put him on an older 167 VAS race Rossi with TD1's and my old Burton Reactors at the moment, and he loves it, much improvement from the all-mountain board with Nordica SBH's and Race Plates he was riding before.

D-Sub, Duh, my bad, leave it to me to miss the obvious about the width, of course I knew the other two parts, now all I need is the radius. Now If I can find that SCR formula I'd be all set.

Hey folks, any spec-savy guys (or gals) familiar with the specs on this one? Its the red/white/blue XVAS Rossi board. I like it very much, but I actually dont know the specs on it, tried doing some research on the net, no luck. Did I look in the wrong place? I'm mostlyu curious about the sidecut radius and width. The running length is right on the board, but nothing else. I'm trying to use this info for a baseline should I want to upgrade to a Donek or Coiler in the future. Thanks! BTW, here's a link to the identical board model I have, that somone happened to auction off on ebay last week if it is a help. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7128564118

I don't know how it is with Burton, but with every ski boot I have ever sold the shell size is 25.0/25.5 same shell, 26.0/26.5 same shell, 27.0/27.5 same shell, 28.0/28.5 same shell, 29.0/29.5 same shell, 30.0/20.5 same shell. So if your feet actually measured (X).o to (x).5, you would go with the shell sized x.5. In this case, you would go with the 27 if that is your only choice. If you were bigger than (x).5, but smaller than (y).0, then depending on your preference, you could go either way. Nothing will tell the tale like the shell fit test as suggested by Jack, due to differences in shapes of feet or shapes in shell, and you want to forget that you are a 9 1/2 or 10 1/2 or whatever. Make sure you measure your feet in mondopoint. I just bought some Deeluxe indys in a 29.0. and my feet measuered almost 29.5 exactly. I would have been swimming in the 30.0's. As ncermak stated, you cant shrink a big boot, but you can work with a smaller one.

Have you tried either of the boots on? Heres some knowledge for you: A 27 and a 27.5 are the SAME boot. The shell size is the same, the liner is the same, the only thing different is the thickness of the footbed, the 27.0 has a thicker footed to take up some volume. If you end up using your own footbeds, the 27.0 footbeds will get tossed anyways. Or, if using stock footbeds, once the boots are broken in, the 27.0 thickness wont matter anymore. If you go 28.0, you will be in a boot that is too large right of the bat as far as length, and it will always be too big. Better to grab the 27's and have a bootfitter work with them. Smaller is always better whenever possible, the snugger the fit, the better performance, feel, and control of your board. PS, you should remove your post of the same topic on the classifieds section, it is posted in the wrong place, and plenty of people will see it here which is the correct place! ;)

1) Why Carve?...... It's the G-Forces. I like driving a sports car or a motorcycle on a twisty road, as well as flying private aircraft in steeper banks, climbs, or dives than you would find as a passenger iin a commercial airliner. Its the same for the carve. I was (still am) a technically proficient skiier, and had wanted to try snowboarding as something to do instead of skiing. I liked ski racing down tight twisty race courses, and was not into freestyle skiing either. Of course freesyle snowboarding was what was in the spotlight years ago (and still is) versus carving/racing other then the Burton US open at the time. Blending my technical proficiency from skiing with the new(er) sport of smowboarding lent itself to a more prominent feeliing of the "Carve" sensation. Some people go to the amusement parks and ride roller coasters for the high speed twisty adrenaline rush. . I carve my snowboard instead. I can control the carving sensation better on a snowboard, 9direction, speed, etc). You cant do that in an amusement park, and its also had to do it (legally) in a sports car, motorcycle, or in an airplane. 2) Do I feel limited?..... I used to a few years back, (as in 10 or 12 yers back) but not now. I have no inclination to ride a park, pipe, or parking lot on a jib board, so I do not see the more specific carving gear as limiting. It would be limiting to me to use freestyle gear and try to apply it to carving technique. You wouldn't ask a die hard slalom water skier if he feels limited by his ski if he had no inclination to wakeboard would you? 3) What could ski areas do?...... As many above have stated, maybe have some carve zones/carving hills and more grooming for the for more experienced riders, as well as instructors and rental equipment on hand to cater to apsiring carving riders. I don't like segregation any more than the next person, but for the carving population, it makes things a bit safer in this case. Lots of times I don't feel safe just because of crowds, as well as less experienced, or just plain ignorant wintersports enthusiasts who are unaware of the "skiiers" responsibility code, ("skiiers" used as a blanket term for EVERYONE on the mountain in this context, not just people who have two sticks on their legs instead of one), or they just lack common sense at all. I wouild probably feel safer flying down the same trail at the same time among a sea of experienced carvers, whom I have never even met before or spoken to, because they have the same "perception" and "awareness" that I do of the trail. I ski and I snowboard. I know that once I started snowboarding I "look" at the trail from a whole new persepective, because my means of getting down the mountain is different than if I had two separate legs and ski poles to propel me like skiiers do. Most skiiers I know don't understand where I need to stop or start on a trail, becusse gravity is more important to me than them when getting started on my next run. You have to know how to pick a line better than a skiier if you are going to carve. 4) Are we an endangered species?... I think that right now it is quite the opposite. Small segment of the wintersports industry? Yes. Yes, true, we don't have the numbers out there on the slopes compared to freestyle boarders or skiiers in general, but the sport has progressed with technology, and has matured a bit and found a following. Small niche carving companies like Bomber, Catek, Donek, Coiler, and Prior have found their legs, thanks to outstanding quality product, and also in conjunction with the explosion of the internet. Worldwide commerce at your finger tips, as well as advice, fellowship, and comeraderie from all over the globe sharing their passion for the carve. IMO traditional "destination" retail shopping at fixed store locations is dead, and this sport has found its way to cater to its followers through the internet without skipping a beat, as it was the ignored bastard child of wintersports retail for such a long time anyways. If anything, if it wasnt for snowboarding, wintersports in general would be an endangered species. There weren't alot of new skiiers being introduced to the mountains in the last 10 years or so, it has been the snowboarders who have been buying the hardgoods and lift tickets. And many of those snowboarders had NEVER skiied before or come from a skiing family. I even knew skiiers (besides myself) who were not allowed to snowboard by their parents! Now the sport of skiing has borrowed the concept of sidecut and turning radius to pump life into their own dying sport, while we have been thriving all along. True, we don't get the press that freestyle snowboarding gets, but we love to (or at least I love to) educate (and some times play with the minds of) folks whose first glance at an alpine setup (and consequentially 20 questions) happened to be when they were in line with me or when they rode the chair with me.

I'd love to make it up there, but I work the wonderful world of retail and I probably can't get the day off, not to mention it would be my first day out this season. Also, I've never run gates before (on a snowboard at least). I used to race competetively on skis though. Are there any opportunities mid-week nights to run gates there? I wouldn't mind giving it a go through a course at some point in time.

Mozz, those were great! I'm gonna have to print those out and post them in our shop, as most of the folks I work with are "flatlanders" who have never seen or heard of most of the terms. .....Nothing like a "JSA" comment from a customer who is trying to get new skis for free under warranty after completely thrashing them from a yard sale and/or poor snow coverage during their most recent ski trip..... Mass-Holes... Also see "Flatlanders", term given by Maine resort employees for Massachusetts spores and joeys who ski on their mountains.