JJFluff

I hope I am never on autopilot.

I agree, I was trying to make the point that every board can be mastered. By changing technique, a board that may react differently from another can be ridden with similar results over time.

I have been riding for 17 years. During that time I have been on 5 different boards. Point being, its not a board problem. Unless you bought it at walmart and it has metal edges it will ride just fine. I find that this forum pushes people to blame gear way to quickly when maybe it is just putting more time in working on something that is not that easy to perfect. No offense to anyone, but transitioning in between turns is all about body position and not the board. Keep what you have if that is the only problem. If you just want another board to play with buy it. But don't think the board doesn't transition well, or let anyone else tell you it is the board. It's lack of experience either with riding or the board your on.

I've ridden both tds, and burtons, names aside, I prefer the flexier binding because I have become accustomed to them. They allow the body to move more freely above them as well. Not just the reaction time alone from binding to board. I think some of the best hardboot riding is that when you can't even tell from a distance that the rider is on hardboots, its smooth, fast, and effortless.

Why not?

That really is what that age group thinks carving is too. Its tragic.

Yeah, it looks like this: You can see how far the board is in front of the stance at the end of the turn.That is what helps to make the transition effortless. You just have to be ready for the pop and then roll over, landing in the perfect position for the next turn.

It is similar to push/pull, similar to the extremecarver.com boys, but with less reliance on the whole eurocarve thing.

Who or what is CMC? I've seen video of the one they call El father de carve, he rides very aggressive, just a very compressed rider. I was more interested in his jacket. (not this jacket pictured, the carvefather jacket.)...."not that there is anything wrong with that." -George Costanza

Sorry to offend. I apologize. Like I said, I'm sure he is a stand up guy. But... he does have The carve father embroidered on his jacket, so by doing that, you need to allow yourself to be put under some scrutiny. Don't you think? Just a first impression, over the internet. It's nothing personal. And I'm sure I'll get in trouble for saying this much, but... just what I thought when I first saw the jacket, thats all. Fluffy.

I still am not sure we are talking about the same thing. Maybe we are, not sure. I'm trying to say, that when entering a turn, toeside for instance, by dropping the knees to the snow, while keeping the shoulder parallel I find it harder to be in total control of the speed, direction, and duration of the turn itself. I'll ride the fall line at times as well, but just feel that I can react much quicker to changes in terrain keeping everything working together. Of course years of practice help too. I certainly am not looking for a tapered board.

Nice knees Jack. Anyways, I have been working seperating the knees/shoulders parallel this year as well. I was out tonight in icy conditions and made a few turns actually. It is definately a different feeling all together. Not riding that way that often I still feel like once I'm in the turn, I'm there to the end. I've used the phrase, "trapped in the carve". Do you know what I mean. I would guess with more mileage that feeling would go away? It feels like all or nothing to me. Fall line riding. Now, I've never seen video of you, but you do look much more comfortable in pictures than many others due. Of course, you have a lot more experience than many others. I plan on playing around more with it, but still find to have more freedom with less severe angulation with more weighting and unweighting kind of like a skier would ride/carve. Just curious if you know what I mean about feeling "trapped" or stuck for the duration of the turn. Also, fyi, I really am not pushing my knees together, they just end up there.

Hi Ken, you got the right guy, we rode together in 05? I guess what I mean when I say stretch out is on toe sides by stretching out in certain situations it moves the center of gravity, or maybe center of mass? further away from the edge which keeps you from "tipping over the edge". In icy conditions, you may end up on your chest, but when actually riding snow, it just helps to keep the board in the turn longer? I'm not very good at explaining it. It's basically just decompressing near the middle of the turn, than the body stays where it is, and the snowboard is accelerated through the turn, which basically puts you back in a compressed position.(knees closer to the chest) If you can visualize what I am trying to say, good job. This picture shows it pretty well. Now if you can imagine the ending, the body slows through the turn, the board accelerates to lead into starting the transition. Granted this is riding in God's Country....Aspen....where there is no ice, no matter what the locals say, but even on hardpack it works. And for those of us who ride after January thunderstorms, it can work on those days too, you just have to commit to the turn and don't be tentative. As soon as you hold back, you're out of position, and the edge slips. I'm sure everyone who rides crap knows what I mean.

Well....it has evolved a bit over the past 15 years.:)

Not asking you to change, just like talking about technique. One thing though, With the style I ride with, I also find it easier to maintain a turn to end everytime, if I want to. At the same time the turn can begin or end at will. That was what I was trying to say by getting trapped in a carve. But, I'm not trying to be an ass, just passing the time talking about carving.

FYI.....It hard to take someone seriously when there avatar is about weed. And yes, for the last 17 years I have seen this phenomenon. :D

Point taken, Ink, Doh. Thanks for the pleasant response. The board reverse cambers. Through the turn. It seemed like the question of riding with the knees "crammed together" caused the board to ride dead, trapping you in a turn. Not the case.

My knees are not jammed together, they do end up next to each other though. And if you get over the fact that the knees are together and look at the whole picture, from head to toe, the body compresses, like a spring. As I enter a heelside for instance, I rotate or open into the turn with my upper body first which follows to the hip, the lower body follows. All of this occurs simultaneously with the body compressing down with the movement together. It is a very simple, natural movement. Weighting and unweighting is very easy and you are always in a good balanced position to make adjustments, both up and down, and the ability to move the board forward or backward below you which will move the pressure to where you need it on the edge. It's just one good way to ride, we are all here to enjoy carving after all. And for some this could be the ticket. The board is never decambered when in contact with the snow. The board decambers at the end of each turn which is used as a springboard to help with quick turn initiation. That is where accelerating the board below you comes into play. It can help to complete a turn early to help tighten the turns and transition early. Its a lot of fun.

Oh yeah, I've tried both techniques, and your right seperating the knees adds more pressure to the edge. I have found that it works great for fall line riding. For me it feel like you get trapped in the carve. It puts you at mercy to the board. The turns don't feel as dynamic to me. I just find with a more upright riding style you have more freedom to ride the terrain vs. the fall line. It's almost like the style came out of the race course. I'm not racing, I'm riding the hill or mountain.

I think it is a combination of both Hotbeans. Depending if your setting an uphill edge running across the fall line, or pointing more down the fall line. "Diving" is a great way to enter the turn when the nose of the board is already falling down the fall line, as you are exiting the turn, allowing the board to accelerate past your body in the radius of the turn puts you in a great position to absorb the snap that occurs to help transition the board. I think when you dive into a turn and then don't move back on the board this is probably when too much force ends up damaging more than helping. Both the turn and the equipment. The body is still driving down line while the board is struggling to move across. The two forces act against each other. I try, when riding, to apply only the pressure needed to complete each section of the turn. I think that is why the shoulders parallel to the slope doesn't fly in my book. Not to mention all of the angulation. I find at times you need to "stretch out near the end of turns to move some of the force off the edge when needed. Just how I've always done it.

It's good to want the sport to grow, and I can tell from his video he is a high energy guy, and probably a blast to ride with. I try to be a good ambassador to bringing back the carving movement myself. I feel the best way is to be open to as many riding styles as possible and realize that one style doesn't suit everybody. That is the only reason I question certain riding when I know another method works great as well, and know it could help others enjoy carving more.

Yeah, that was fun, I love technical threads. Anyways, that thread wasn't just about riding with the knees together. The knees end up together by the way the body is positioned through the turn. I'm sure the "carvefather" is a great guy, but he must have a sore lower back riding hunched over all the time. With a more upright body position you can substitute angultation with more compression to shorten the body and complete the high speed turn, in my opinion. I ride on ice all the time as well, in fact right now some of the ice balls are the size of baseballs. So I have had to make due for a long time. The fact is there is more than one way to effectively ride less than perfect conditions.

This story was on "The Keith Oberman Show" last night.

When does one put so much pressure on the nose that it folds. I have never come close to being so much on the front of the board that this would occur. Is it by accident when this is occuring or is it a technique during the turn that causes it. I think if you are putting that much unneeded pressure on the nose than you need to think of moving your weight a bit back.

No I've seen many, I just think he is bending at the waist too much. Not a fan of the style, I think it looks painful. Just my opinion, thought I would see the reaction I would get by critiquing the one they call the "carve father".