Dan
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Posts posted by Dan
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Hell yeah, thanks for the pics folks! Keep 'em coming!
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So, here's a quick update.
The neighborhood gym down the street from me suggested a personal trainer, who is a very chill guy and is also the state record holder for squat, bench and deadlift at 163 lbs. I told him about my lower back issues and let him know I wanted to strengthen the area, and I thought squat and deadlift would be good, as well as whatever else he suggested.
He put me through some unweighted assessment exercises and the upshot was that I pretty much do everything with my lower back. When I do exercises that should draw on glutes, back, and core, I'm relying almost exclusively on the lower back.
This rang pretty true to me. So the short story is that I probably have sub-optimal snowboard setup leading to sub-optimal riding posture - per feedback received here. That puts me in a posture where I need to compensate, and I'm doing most/all of that with the lower back, instead of those other muscle groups that might be able to share the load. So I definitely need to do a two-prong approach of revisiting my setup as well as spending some time in the gym, and getting those supporting muscles activated / engaged as well as building strength.
So, with all that on my mind, I went up to Timberline yesterday. That's right, I'm too fragile to go ride at Libby, but I figured Timberline was fine -- it's pretty flat there anyway when the upper mountain is closed. I tried to think about posture and actually had one turn where I felt like my glutes were working, which was the first time I've ever had that sensation. I'm still prone to slip into old habits though and I left with a slightly sore lower back, but no major issues.
Net net, I have lots to work on, between getting my setup dialed, figuring out how to recruit those other muscles, and then overall strengthening, but I think I'm headed the right direction.
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Weekend pow days are a circus on Mt. Hood now, and most midweek days are the same...but occasionally a midweek powder day that comes after an extended storm cycle will still slip under people's radar. Spring powder days are also more manageable than Jan/Feb.
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If a carver carves a turn and doesn't post a long rub-in thread with many photos on ASB, did it really happen?
(i.e., "Where are the damn photos already?!")
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Hi Teach, looks good! Here are mine, no chunks missing, just a little dirt. I'll PM you with my address.
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WANT! But can't really justify it at the moment, alas. Looks like a sweet setup, some lucky guy will have fun with it.
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I haven't skied since I was a child and was never good enough to rock a monoski, but when I see people use them, it looks like they combine the bad points of skiing and snowboarding without much benefit. Am I wrong about that?
Having said that, I have deep respect for anyone that can tear it up on a monoski - it looks hard!
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I have a set of red ones and I'd like to trade for yellow! They're used (came with a set of bindings I just bought); I'll post a picture tonight.
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You should get in touch with @carvedog - I don't recall if he does formal lessons or not but I'm sure you could learn a lot from riding with him
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On 1/27/2020 at 6:00 AM, Beckmann AG said:
Helpful.
In both photos, your torso is cantilevered ahead of your hips, which means any resultant shock loads incurred will be absorbed to a greater extent with muscle than with skeletal structure.
Some forward angle is expected, and normal. The problem is it doesn't take too much angular change ahead of 'safe' to predispose oneself to injury, given the sometimes unexpected load spikes.
To illustrate this point, mimic the posture from either photo indoors, using the consistent 9.8m/s/s as a consistent load. See how long you can stand there without discomfort, than flex your knees up and down a few times to generate slight shock loading (without altering the rest of your posture) and see what happens.
OR maybe just standing there will be enough.
In the heelside photo, your knee flexion is disproportionately uneven, and it appears the center of your front knee is offset somewhat toward the heelside edge. This suggests that much of your heelside edge tilt is derived by moving your center into the turn, rather than originating at the feet and/or knees. In this situation, in order to move the center into the turn without fully toppling at turn entry, it's necessary to counterbalance that movement with an opposite movement of the shoulders. That arrangement moves you from skeletal to muscular support, and that will predispose you to back injury in certain circumstances.
Worth noting that in both photos you appear 'normal'.
Something else to consider is that for many riders, the greater loads are seen later in the turn, when the joints are already close to full flexion. As such, there aren't too many options to 'leak' excess energy from the system, other than through structural deformation of the surface, or the rider. As you continue with your riding, pay attention to both postural effect, and also consider that the greater amount of joint flexion should take place when loads are lowest, and the lesser amount of joint flexion should take place when loads are highest. And that the flexion/extension process should be progressive, rather than sudden/static.
HInt: It's pyrite.
Thank you Beckmann!
Your post gave me what I think is a pretty big revelation: I always lock my right (rear) boot at a higher angle than the front. No particular reason, I just started doing it like that and no one ever told me that's a bad idea. So, that would force the uneven knee flexion, which forces my hips towards the back of the board, and then the torso lean to move my CoG back forward, right? Things I probably should have found out 10 years ago...
This may not have a simple answer, but given that I'm still riding with the stock Deeluxe walk/ride switches, where should I set the forward lean? Should it be same on both boots?
> This suggests that much of your heelside edge tilt is derived by moving your center into the turn, rather than originating at the feet and/or knees.
Possibly a dumb question, but what should I be thinking about if I want to initiate heelsides from the feet / knees? I think I definitely do this by leaning to the heelside now, should I just be weighting my heels and trying to unweight my toes?
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4 hours ago, Lurch said:
Dan suspect it's more likely the burrs come from the lever 'flopping' against the edge of the board?
Oh yeah, that would make a lot more sense
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I also have some jagged edges on the leading edges of my toe clips, but it's never been an issue with glove abrasion that I've noticed. Are we all on the same page that those jagged edges are a result of abrasion against the snow? That's pretty wild if you think about it, no?
At any rate, if the snow can abrade aluminum (?!), I think that FlexSeal would also be a temporary fix at best. I think sanding / filing / grinding is the way to go, as others have suggested.
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5 hours ago, Corey said:
Oh, wow, this is still from then? Yeah, time to get things moving properly again! I struggled with varying degrees of back pain (stiff/sore to can't walk) for almost 20 years before a friend convinced me to try lifting heavy stuff to build muscle mass. I didn't know I'd also learn to move through a wider range of motion as well.
I was fine all summer, and it's not nearly as acute as last year, but yeah, I seem to have re-aggravated the same area that I screwed up last year.
On 1/22/2020 at 10:52 AM, Keenan said:Dr. Desai in Beaverton. I had compressed and deteriorating discs in my lower back with lots of tingling sensations (sciatica). He cured me.
Thanks Keenan! I'll check him out.
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I don't have any video of me riding, but I was able to dig up a couple of photos.
This heelside photo is most applicable because heelside is where I'm tweaking my back. This is steeper than it looks and I felt like I was all over the place, so it's probably a good example of what I do when things are not going great.
Mellow toeside - I don't think this angle is very helpful for our current discussion though.
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On 1/22/2020 at 8:22 AM, Mr.E said:
Dan, you mention doing core work, but are you doing back and hip work?
I find that tightness in my hips/ hip flexors can add stress to my spinal erectors. You mention chop/ sitting hard, etc- I'm only speaking anecdotally, but that echoes hip discomfort I've had that has expressed itself in my back.
Lots of people think of core strength as abdominal strength, but it's also back strength. Doing back related exercises (like deadlifts and trunk work) have gone a long way to improving my daily back pain (sports injury, work posture, etc). There is a reason you see WC riders lifting heavy stuff in their gym videos.
*As an aside, I have been lucky to work with some good trainers on learning how to pick stuff up. If you are naturally gym adverse like I am, try to find a good class, trainer or coach to help you learn how to lift stuff up safely and get the proper techniques down.
Thanks Mr.E! As I mentioned above, I've done only body weight stuff for quite awhile. That includes planks, which target the whole core, but I do think I probably need to add weights and start doing more whole-body exercises like deadlifts. I'm fortunate to have a really attitude-free neighborhood gym near me and I know once I get myself to show up and say "um, can you show me how to do this?" I'll get good coaching from the staff, just need to get over that initial hesitancy.
On 1/24/2020 at 7:28 AM, Corey said:The takeaways I got from all of this:
1. Back surgery is unlikely to provide a better outcome than waiting an equivalent amount of time
2. A significant percentage of people without any back pain show herniated discs - so imaging can cause undue stress via nocebo and non-proven medical procedures
Not too surprising - they're saying the same thing about ACL repairs now too. My symptoms would have to be much worse before I would consider surgery.
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On 1/22/2020 at 5:30 AM, Beckmann AG said:
Dan,
No idea how you ride.
However, the average rider is usually bent at the waist during phases of each turn. The upper body mass will 'want' to move tangent to the arc, and something must constrain that tendency. Depending on your posture, and where the loads of the turn misalign with that posture, odds are good you're overloading your system in general, and the noted shocks push you toward the breaking point.
While the spine has a considerable range of motion, it's fair to assume it will handle variable loads best when aligned vertically with those loads, rather than at some angle toward the horizontal.
One option is to get stronger, which by default increases muscle density.
Another option is to optimize your posture.
Thanks Beckmann, if you want to know how I ride, think about Chris Klug, only more fluid.
Seriously, I unfortunately don't have any recent pics or video, but as noted above, I am quite inflexible and accomplish "getting low" at least partially by rounding my lower back. It seems I've hit my body's limits for that approach though. Possibly related: I typically ride with a pack, though I've trimmed the contents down to about a liter of water, a layer (depending on time of day, I might be wearing it, or it could be in the pack), and usually a hat.
Not sure if you can opine on this sight unseen, but I'm using the stock walk/ride switch in my Deeluxe boots. I think that switching to a BTS could help because I could flex my knees more and reduce the need to bend my back to get my CoG down. Does that make sense?
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On 1/21/2020 at 8:01 PM, SunSurfer said:
A contributor to your problem @Dan may be the posture carvers get into to clip into their bail bindings.
Above is a screen capture from First Tracks at SES 2013 but it's typical. Apologies to whoever's backside I'm highlighting.
Our boots don't allow easy ankle flexion or knee bend when we bend forward to engage the bail on the rear binding as we get ready to ride. Almost all the forward bend therefore is made at the hips and bending the lower back. If your hamstring muscles on the back of the thigh are tight then little pelvic tilt can occur to allow movement at the hip, so now the bulk of the movement comes from compression of the discs adjacent to the 5 lumbar vertebrae (spine bones). This also puts enormous tension on the low back muscles on either side of the spine and your core generally.How to tell if your hamstrings are tight? And how to safely stretch them if they are?
Above is me stretching my left hamstring. How close you can get your butt to the doorway and keep your knee straight tells you how tight, or not, your hamstrings are. When I first started doing these my leg would be at 45 degrees to the door frame and my knee would start to bend.
Lying in this position with your butt slightly closer to the door than you can keep your knee straight isolates the stretch to just that hamstring. The weight of your leg keeps your back firmly on the floor. The other leg on the floor minimises any tilt of the pelvis. And with regular stretches you will get your butt closer to the door. Use the other side of the doorway to stretch the other leg.I moved to Intec heels long ago because of my tight hamstrings and the back pain issues they cause getting into my bail bindings. The stretches help me with lower back pain/muscle spasm issues I have had in day to day life as well.
You don't have to abandon your bail bindings entirely. Just buy a set of Intec bindings, stick the bails on the front and the Intecs on the rear. Your back will love you for it!Thanks SunSurfer! That stretch is great and I'm adding it to my routine - I have very tight hamstrings and a lot of hamstring stretches don't work for me because I'm just too inflexible. (I'm a road cyclist and I've heard tight hamstrings are pretty common for us.)
I'm not sure if clipping in was the cause, but I can confirm that clipping / unclipping does hit the exact muscles that I tweaked. I'm guilty of rounding my back when riding as well - that's the easiest way for me to get low, but I'm getting the idea that's not sustainable.
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On 1/21/2020 at 3:14 PM, Corey said:
I've found that a 'bus driver' with a weighted barbell in a land mine (or corner) hits this exact muscle very similar to snowboarding. Regular deadlifts and squats don't hit it enough. It's my right side of my spine, regular-foot rider. I also add strengthening exercises for the sides of my calves (the muscles that roll the foot along its long axis) to my training program.
Dr. Austin Baraki of Barbell Medicine is a medical pain expert that openly critiques things like the McKenzie method. Check this video for a reading of one of his short articles.
If that intrigues you, they have many articles and podcasts on the topic, as casual or science-y as you want. I'm amazed at how fast I've come back from a couple back 'tweaks' using their process, laid out in the video linked within that video. Get past Alan's 'big badass Marine' voice to hear the content.
I used a foam roller and lacrosse ball when I was having flare-ups of that muscle, though I now realize that foam rolling is a placebo. A placebo that's pretty cheap and worked, so I still carry that lacrosse ball in my riding gear on trips. Haven't used it in years.
@FTA2R, the comment at 4:00 is exactly addressing your comments. Catastrophizing is only adding to your issue. The spine is made to bend and twist, and over time you can progressively strengthen the supporting muscles. I had a similar mindset to you; defeated to an ever-shrinking range of motion as I aged. My back hurts less often now after a few years of training than it did 10 years ago.
Thanks Corey! I watched the video and the video linked in the video (took me awhile to figure out I had to turn off my ad blocker to see it :-)).
Though I'm a little leery of "just work through the pain", I can vouch that doing nothing hasn't helped: the original injury was at Libby last year, as I'm sure you remember given that you were driving my gimpy ass around. Thanks for the tip on the 'bus driver' exercise too, it has been a long time since I did anything other than bodyweight stuff, but I think it's time to get back in to a gym.
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Are you looking for somewhere where you can stay on the hill, or are you open to driving to/from the lifts each day?
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Thanks F2A2R! I really appreciate getting your perspective, definitely do not want to do permanent damage...I'm at the age where I'm coming to understand how depressingly easy that is to do. I have a few questions for you:
What kind of specialist would you suggest? Have you had good results from any particular specialty? I did see some good sports-focused physical therapists last year, but of course no one knows what carving is or what motions are involved. I suppose I could show them some video or something???
Interesting that you mentioned the clipping in movement as a possible concern. I use standard bails too...did you just give me permission to upgrade to step ins?
The pain I'm getting...I don't really know how to describe it other than muscle pain / spasms alongside the spine. I have a big knot from last year that's still there despite some trips to massage.
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1 hour ago, 1xsculler said:
Working on Norms today and finding that bumpy terrain complicates things considerably BUT my quads letting me down is my major problem. I row my racing shell, 40’, 4-6 days/wk but that doesn’t seem to help out, at all, in the isometric type of exercise of the quads in carving.
I am going to have to start doing 3x10 of dumbell dead lifts every other day religiously.I bike commute, and tow my dog in a trailer (100 lb load) 2 or 3 days a week. Just the bike commuting helped a little bit, but when I added the the dog it really helped my leg strength for carving a lot. I know not everyone is going to tow a big dog to work, but I think any kind of cycling workout with some heavy resistance intervals - hill climbs on road or MTB, or an exercise bike where you do high resistance for part of the workout - would help.
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So...I've been having some lower back issues lately. They first cropped up last season (I had a muscle spasm that left me unable to clip out of my board, and couldn't walk right or sit up in bed for days), and they came back this weekend, though not as bad as last year. It's muscle pain on the sides of the spine, more on the left side than the right side, but I've had issues on both sides. If I have my knees bent and stay low, I'm good, but a few specific things cause problems: hard heelside falls, especially if I sit down hard (i.e., as opposed to the more common low side slideout). Hitting chop straightlegged and soaking up the bumps in my back is also a problem.
Stretches I'm doing include pigeon pose, cat/cow, child pose and that lower back stretch you did on your junior high soccer team where you put your left elbow to the right of your bent right knee and twist to the right, then reverse. For core strength, I've been doing planking, and this exercise I got from a physical therapist where I get on all fours and then extend my right arm and left leg at the same time, hold that pose, then switch and extend my left arm and right leg at the same time.
Admittedly, I've been pretty inconsistent with all of that except planking, but given that issues from last season are cropping up again, I'm motivated to do better. Does anyone have any suggestions for similar issues?
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That kind of looks like a business that's placing safety and the quality of the experience they offer over making money...hats off to Crystal for having the guts to go through with this.
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6 hours ago, nuisanceIV said:
I've seen the youth ski racers freeski around the hill and usually they know how to ski. Interesting he couldn't avoid him. I'm thinking there's more going on than the article reports since it says a ski patroller witnessed it.
In my experience, they're great skiers, but have the unshakeable confidence of youth, and as a result don't leave much room for error. I got buzzed at Bachelor over the holidays by a ski team racer - he was going pretty much full-tilt and passed me (behind me) about 3 feet away. He probably felt that was a safe pass, but if things had gone a little differently, it would have been bad for me.
"With great power, comes great responsibility." When you're one of the best riders on the hill by a wide margin, there's really no excuse for intentionally cutting things that close.
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Input from the community for developing a Alpine Snowboard specific Zipfit liner.
in Carving Central
Posted
Welcome to the forum Zipfit! I'm always happy to see a manufacturer pay attention to our very niche market. As you probably know, we are definitely willing to spend money to fine tune our setups - I look forward to riding some alpine-snowboard-specific Zipfits one day down the road!