Buell
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Posts posted by Buell
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Thanks Buell: from your experience, would you say that there is a significant difference in how the 156 & 160 rides in various conditions? Why did you prefer the 160 over the 156??
I'm not expecting the Fish to be one to carve like a champ and understand that there are better boards out there that can are much more versatile, but does having the extra 4 cm of running length & effective edge help in handling snow once it is tracked out, or riding groomers?
What do all you Fish owners feel about how it rides and handles out of ideal powder conditions?? Fish out of water??
As you would expect, the 160 turns a little bigger and floats a little better than the 156, but neither is very significant. I prefer it because when I ride powder I make boards turn tight, so the added size of the 160 was good for me as I could push harder on it without it turning too tight. Most anyone else my size would be on the 156.
Is this for east coast powder days or west coast? Of course you will get different opinions, but at your 185, I would do the 160. You will not have trouble turning it.
On softer groom, the Fish actually carves really well. Lots of quick turns. All that taper makes the initiation super fast.
I only rode the Fish on powder days and I only rarely ride anything but untracked. I do not like it in tracked snow because the nose really pushes me around. I also do not have it on groomers unless they happen to be there on a powder day (soft). I do see Fish all the time here at Powder Mountain on good powder days and even after the powder is tracked out, so others might disagree about how they work in chop (or that is the cheap board they bought for their annual week out west - not a bad option).
If cost is a factor and it will not get ridden a lot, I think the Fish is a great option. Otherwise, I prefer other powder boards. At the moment, I even relegated my Spearhead to third string. The top two are both rockered. Nothing I have ever ridden goes through the chopped up powder anything like a rockered board, not to mention how they ride in good powder. Some of the rocker designs even carve well on hero groom and they all seem to carve well on soft groom.
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I am 145 pounds and rode the 06 and 07 156 Fish before moving to the 08 160. The 156 floats fine for me, but I preferred riding the 160 which also turns super quick.
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PD, your use of videos as evidence of your point that carvers do not look uphill regularly has three significant issues.
One is that the videos are typically of such a quality that you are going to miss many of the uphill checks. Just like you did in carvedog's video until he pointed them out.
The second major problem is that they are edited such that you do not often see more than 5 turns of a rider in a clip.
The most potent flaw however is that, even if you can find video of carvers not looking uphill for extended periods of time, you are only demonstrating that some carvers don't look uphill enough. You are unable to demonstrate with that video that it is not possible to look uphill regularly. You are also unable to demonstrating that not checking uphill often is a safe thing to do.
Beyond the videos, your contention that carvers cannot safely check uphill every 2 to 5 turns is simply wrong. I assume due to inexperience on your part.
Your implication that not checking uphill often is not a safety issue is clearly wrong due to an indisputable conclusion. Carvers get hit from behind all the time.
The only real defense against being hit from behind is to check uphill often. Yes, every 2 to 5 turns situation dependent. Possibly more with great visibility uphill and no one coming in from the sides (rare), and possibly less on a crowded slope or on a run with poor visibility upslope due to terrain.
If you cannot check uphill without fear of hitting other riders, it is time to get off the hill or go find an easier run.
Ride how you want, but stop offering your dangerous and inexperienced advice to others. I, and it sounds like lots of others on this thread and many who have not posted here, do it on every run.
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Venture Snowboards made in Silverton, CO are making rockered boards. They have eliminated cambered ones. Looks like their FR/powder boards have rocker in the nose and tail with the middle section being flat. I like the shape of the Storm. Has a pointy nose kind of like the 3800. Would like to demo one of these rocker boards sometime.
They still have a cambered board, and I think one that you can get with camber or rocker. I am only hearing raves about their rockered boards though.
Rebecca has a split board Storm and loves it. She has ridden enough powder boards to know whats up. I have not ridden it, but it looks very promising.
Do not overlook the 172 rockered Tanker. From what I can tell, they have nailed it the best so far for hardbooter type riding. You can see my long winded review of it here.
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That's good to hear big bump. Rocker intrigues me but I worry what it will do as far as high speed freeriding, etc. People have said the Lib Banana boards are squirrely and have poor stability.
The Lib SnowMullet I rode last season was squirrelly in the powder. It actually carved soft groom very well for what ever reason (never tried it on good groom). It was really soft in the middle and that did not work for me. I sold it quick.
The four rockered boards I have tried and the 5th that Rebecca has ridden are all different. You need to find one with the right combination of rocker, rocker pattern, and flex.
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Sounds to me like you are a danger to yourself and everyone on the slope if you ride in crowds that require a look behind you every 2 turns. If this is the case get off the slope and stop carving when it gets that crowded. It happens sometimes. The slopes can just get too bogged down where you have to make a judgement call and deside it is too dangerous for yourself and everyone around you to carve on the hill.
Wow, it has be quite a day while I have been carving.
Funny PD how you are doing your best to narrow the argument to every 2 turns. That situation arises often enough, but that is not the point being made.
You don't understand PD. I ride some of the most empty runs I know of here at Powder Mountain. Moreover, while I ride much faster and harder than many BOL posters, I am much less of a danger to other riders than most beginner / intermediate carvers. Experience pays.
Myself and the others posting good riding safety on this thread are not after you personally so don't flatter yourself. It doesn't even bother me that you have been calling me a liar since my first post because I know you have no idea what you are talking about. Really, you post dumb stuff all the time and we ignore it.
We are responding because:
By advocating against looking uphill every few turns you are doing a disservice to new riders who may not be riding at such a small hill.If a beginner wants to take much of your incorrect advice, that is their deal. Unfortunately, this time it is dangerous for others to listen to you.
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you are not the norm for safety and should be ignored much like Buell.
You are wrong and clueless on this issue. It is unfortunate that you are so isolated on your 300 foot hill and cannot comprehend what we are talking about.
I want to make sure that other beginner and intermediate riders are informed that looking uphill often is a key to the health of a carver and the skill needs to be developed early.
From the distance that most videos are shot, you would not even notice my check back uphill. I know many of the riders in videos that have been posted here and I know that they check uphill. Two of them I have seen here in videos have already chimed in to say that they check uphill at least every few turns. That is Monodude and Carvedog.
One does not make it to experienced carver without checking uphill often having been ingrained in you by close calls or common sense.
Seriously, you are inexperienced and do not need to be offering this advice.
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Still not out of gas?
Not when dangerous advice is still being posted.
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Actually the original point to the thread was making those who don't follow the code more responsible, not passing the buck to those who are following the code. Again, I promised Ear dragger this part of the argument was over so if you'd like to argue that those that don't ride in control or give those down slope the right of way shouldn't be properly dealt with that's fine I'll argue that with you but no more "looking behind you" posts. Thanks.:D
You are King!
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looking uphill when riding is ok once in a while in my mind. It just makes it sort of unsafe for me to choose my line at speed.
I said this earlier:
It is not that hard to look uphill every 2 to 5 turns (situation dependent). If you cannot do it, you are probably riding slopes or speeds that are over your ability.
I've been hit once very hard on the widest possible trail. I looked uphill before I started to carve, and looked up occasionally in the toe side. but all of a sudden, wham! It's just a matter of luck sometimes.
Sometimes you may miss them coming, but you really cannot look at the collision and see anything you could have done better?
Looking uphill every other turn or what ever is just another way of riding unsafe.Wow.
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The .............................................2?!
That was quite a smoke screen pd. What happened to all your support?
A few years ago I was complaining to a much more experienced carver about almost getting hit. He said, "You have to look uphill more." He was right. It is extremely rare now that I almost get hit.
Don't continue to insist that it is not possible to look uphill every 2 to 5 turns just because you have not learned to do it. Ride how you want but do not endanger other people with your horrible advice when you don't know what you are talking about.
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Just went through the thread.
Unfortunately for queequeg, I have to give you that one.
The others you mention as agreeing with you, I only see them saying that they look up hill often, or they don't address looking up hill at all.
This is not helping my impression of you and your opinion.
Again, ride how you want, just don't promote it as smart.
Right of way has to be simple and unambiguous, or people will get confused and make bad decisions. This was thought through when the Skiers Responsibility Code was formulated and adopted by the NSAA (http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/safety/heads_up/know_the_code.asp).The first four rules, printed on the lift tickets and signage at most member resorts, are simple and unambiguous:
- Always stay in control.
- People ahead of you have the right of way.
- Stop in a safe place for you and others.
- Whenever starting downhill or merging, look uphill and yield.
There is nothing conditional about any of these. They are generally couched in the agreement for use of the facilities. Buying a ticket legally implies that you agree to abide by these rules.
If you air blind off a roller in a run, you are out of control from the moment you leave the ground until you have landed and can avoid anything that might be in your path. If you hit someone who's parked, fallen or cruising slowly below the roller, you are at fault if only because you violated two rules to their one. They are violating #3 if just sitting there (and I, for one, make a point of stopping and warning folks I find doing so - just let them know they aren't visible from above and might be in danger - that usually gets them moving) but the uphill party has no way to know WHY they are there so has no justification for hitting them on the basis that they were at fault.
If you hit someone ahead who's just cruising down the hill, visible, under control and already in the same run, there's no excuse at all.
Riding across a slope is violating none of these rules, as long as you aren't entering the run from the side (from another run, cat-track, or just from a stop at the edge or in the trees), in which case #4 would apply.
A lift line should be a safe place to stop. Anyone making it unsafe should be banished by the management, or if they won't, by local law enforcement. A citizen's arrest would be entirely justifiable, IMHO, in the case of a collision.
That said - I look uphill a lot. Similar to Buell every few turns just as I coming on toeside. And it's not a "look" up the hill for me as much as a quick flick of the eyes. Almost peripherally sometimes just to make sure and cha, cha, cha.
Phil's pretty much on the money. Segregation is bad. It could backfire on us, as a group, big time.I admit that sometimes after a few fast turns I stop looking uphill. Somehow your own speed can lure you into feeling that no one would catch up. Then suddenly the "bomber" that was just a dot on top of the hill, when I started the run, is zooming by...
Yup, more signs and more awareness would be good.
I believe that the small print on the tickets, at most resorts, says something about "...I declare that I red and understand the Skiers' Code..."
photodad2001, " I'm telling you carvers are growing in number. I know 2 of the instructors at my hill carve and I've seen at least 7 different guys out there this year and still haven't ran into some of the guys from last year I saw. There's a storm a brewin'. When we get more and more guys going cross slope these incidents are going to start to pile up and resorts are going to feel the need to do something about it."Have to agree with you, be it on ski's or boards, more and more people getting into turning and Carving :).
I'm seeing some 'sweet turns' at the local hill. Resorts have Parks, Pipes, and SLOW areas, why not have a Carving Area?
One trail marked for 'Turning & Carving ONLY,
No Straightliners'. Send the Straightliners to the Tubing Lanes where they have less chance of making any turns
and can be less dangerous to others.The patrollers on Big White call cheap fri night femur fri.Basicly yahoos that dont have a clue come up and cause havoc.Good that you brought up the downhill thing with then but it prob fell on deaf ears as they sounded like the type where they are always right.
More carving on the slope means more people are exposed to it and know how to deal with the situation. What needs to happen is in serious situations where people are put out of commision because of negligence the patrollers/skihill need to step in and take action.
- Always stay in control.
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I do believe I stated that even I check up hill half way down (on a 300ft. vertical hill), but the 2-5 carves you are talking about is BS. Let's see, a list of those who agree with me (that you shouldn't be required to look behind you THAT MUCH: OhD, queequeg, carvedog (indirectly by agree with those who agree with me), BlueB had a similar experience and responded the same way I did so you could say by example he agrees with me, jp1, Vapor (indirectly), ...you have been reading other peoples posts haven't you? I know, just prove me wrong by showing your argument in action. Take your time and go through the vast number of videos on here and show me just how much we as carvers look behind us. Maybe put together an instructional video showing us the proper frequency for backwards glances.
So that would be:
OhD
queequeg
carvedog
BlueB
JP1
Vapor
I wonder if they would actually agree that looking over your shoulder every 2-5 carves is BS and cannot be done.
You haven't actually been reading other post yourself, have you (typical). But it is moot anyway. Only inexperience carvers could disagree that, if you don't know what is behind you, you are taking a significant risk.
Ride how you want. Best of luck.
Buell
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I knew it!!! It just kills you to see others agree that you are wrong and I am right. It's like how no matter what certain polititians say there's a extreme pundit out there to tear them down whether they are right or wrong. It's only because they are the one saying that makes it wrong in their oppinion. Vote photodad in 2014!!!:):):)
I don't think you are doing a good job of countering my statement that you are delusional.
Who exactly is agreeing with you that a carver cannot check uphill on a regular basis for other riders while carving? Can you list them for me?
If you were a better carver, you would know that I am not wrong.
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If you are looking uphill, that means you are taking your eyes off of downhill traffic, and I don't want to be held responsible for ramming into someone downhill from me because I was looking uphill.
The argument above is bad for two reasons. One is that you should not be carving that close to other riders and you are riding beyond your abilities if you cannot look uphill to see who is coming.
Number two is that one of my worst moments on a carve board was exactly because I was not paying attention behind me and only in front of me.
I was coming up on a kid and her parents as the run narrowed. I had plenty of room to get around them without issue. I was not paying attention behind me however. As I started to pass them, we were descended upon by 3 straightliners on both sides. I got forced hard to the right suddenly, and I came within a foot of taking out the little girl. If I had known they were coming I would have pulled off to the side.
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Bola - congrats on the article. Hope it brings in a ton of new business for you.
+1 Nice work!
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I think what you really mean is, "I can't believe so many of you are agreeing with photodad! He's supposed to always be wrong and whatever he says everyone should say the opposite! Come on guys! Get with the program!" and "let's end this before more people agree with him and start giving him credibility around here!":AR15firin:AR15firin:AR15firin
You are delusional, but you enjoy it. :rolleyes:
I know this and have avoided engaging you for a while now, but this is too much.
I have come around to Bob's recent rants about people who post when they don't know what they are talking about.
Let's help other riders, not fill their heads with crap.
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"I do not generally look uphill from me while carving unless I suddenly find myself in the midst of a pack of unknown skiers/riders, at which point I am usually looking uphill with the intention of stopping and letting the pack go by. Sometimes I will look every now and again on crowded days, but very rarely. If you are looking uphill, that means you are taking your eyes off of downhill traffic, and I don't want to be held responsible for ramming into someone downhill from me because I was looking uphill."
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-queequeg
So you found someone else who agrees with you photodad? I have no shortage of strong riders who agree with me, what is your point.
That does not change the fact that if you are unable to look uphill to check for straightliners you are riding beyond your ability and you are taking a significant risk. If you are afraid of hitting someone because you are glancing uphill, maybe you should give other riders more room.
Carvers get hit by straightliners, bottom line. As much as we like to cite them, the rules don't matter much in a resort and you need to take some responsibility for protecting yourself.
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Email sent.
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topsheet:
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if you are looking up hill every 2-5 turns you are lollygagging it
I am not sure how being able to look up hill translates to lollygagging, but it might in your riding. Please stop advocating not looking uphill. It is dangerous.
Why don't you come ride with me and see if you can hang. :rolleyes:
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Hey Monodude,
Aren't you in one of those videos we've seen here? ;)
A signal system is a good idea when riding with multiple riders.
Saw some monoboards here at Powder Mountain today. Reminded me of when you all came with Monopalooza last year.
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I am extremely visually aware of what is below and to my left and right, maybe even upper left and upper right, but I'd have to call you out, and anyone else on here if you expect me to believe, after seeing all the hundreds of videos I've watched of people riding (and not one person looking behind them) that anyone else here pays that kind of attention up hill. Watch the videos on here or on youtube and count the number of consecutive turns made before anyone looks up hill. Most never look up at all. Sorry, but seeing is believing and I've seen eyes front and to the side at best. Now I listen to my surroundings, and because I heard the second baggy panted rider I was able to alter course, while all he could manage is sliding on his edge with no course change at all. So we could start an argument against carvers wearing ipods with head phones or ear buds, but I don't think we need to get that far off topic.
Ride how you like, but I will repeat, you are taking a big risk. Carvers need to know what is coming from behind them.
It is not that hard to look uphill every 2 to 5 turns (situation dependent). If you cannot do it, you are probably riding slopes or speeds that are over your ability.
and can be less dangerous to others.
A Classic
in Carving Central
Posted
He sure does.
I think he was having an "I'm on video" moment with the other riders.
In fairness to him though, that video is not made for us and it is good to see any decent introduction to carving video for beginners.