chadx Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Well put Dr D. It is astonishing to hear how many people believe the common understanding of things without even considering both sides and without considering from where these 'public policies' originated or were funded. There are countless examples. Vaccines, fluoride in drinking water, pharm. companies relationship with the FDA (since the FDA is largely funded by grants from Pharm. companies, one can't help but wonder if that fact impacts their decision making process), the countries outlook on prion based diseases (BSE, CWD, CJD), etc. But I find more and more people are finally questioning and researching rather than blindly accepting. About 5 years ago, I realized I was doing more and more research on both sides of a topic, simply because information (both correct and incorrect) was available online. EVERY topic has opinions at both extremes and everywhere in between. Often my research would show my first observation was accurate. Sometimes I'd be surprised at what I'd find. Either way, I felt I'd used due diligence in my research and that sated me. In the end, to each their own. We are all responsible for our own actions and I'll never try and take away another’s “choice”, but it's nice today, more than ever, people can access the information...both sides...and make a decision on their own, no matter on which side of a topic they fall.<O:p</O:p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Well put Dr D. It is really funny to hear how many people believe the common understanding of things without even considering both sides and from where these 'public policies' originated. There are countless examples. Vaccines, fluoride in drinking water, pharm. companies relationship with the FDA (FDA is largly funded by grants from Pharm. companies), outlook on prion based diseases (BSE, CWD, CJD), etc. But I find more and more people are finally questioning and researching rather than blindly accepting. In the end, to each there own. We are all responsible for our own actions and I'll never try and take away someone elses 'choice', but it's nice today, more than ever, people can access the information...both sides...and make a decision on their own, no matter on which side of a topic they fall. The internet has truly changed the world. The best part is that it has reintroduced independant thought to the world. both sides and both extremes are widely represented to most any topic and one must have the intestinal fortitude to read, think, and make a decision based on information. no longer will propoganda rule commerce or hearts and minds. Its a brave new world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoetrencher Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Hey Dr D- Aren't you going to remind us that vaccinations cause autism? That our President puts mercury in swordfish and won't take the arsenic out of the water? Wanna see your kid die in your arms of whooping cough? The "black side of capitalism" is me inside on a powder day Where's Jan when you need her Now can we move on to global warming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Hey Dr D- Aren't you going to remind us that vaccinations cause autism? That our President puts mercury in swordfish and won't take the arsenic out of the water? Wanna see your kid die in your arms of whooping cough? The "black side of capitalism" is me inside on a powder day Where's Jan when you need her Now can we move on to global warming? vaccinations do cause autism, one vaccination in particular usually with in two weeks of the shot. But I will let you do your own research. I don't see what the president has to do with any of this really do you? whooping cough is not the global killer its advertised as. I had it as a child and gave it to the whole school all of whom had been immunized for it. Interestingly enough they all had it worse than I did. that's called anecdotal evidence by the way. maybe the stuff doesn't even work at all???? hhmmmmm anyway I don't get to worried about the planet she can take care of herself. See the recent natural disaster photos as proof. man wiped completely off the map. We do agree on one point though. Inside on a powder day is definitely a dark side to capitalism. Reality really bites sometimes. The bills just wanna get paid. I apologize to all readers offended by my recent soap box presentation its just a pet topic of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zone Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 vaccinations do cause autism, one vaccination in particular usually with in two weeks of the shot. Holly crap Dr D , that's old news that is now long disapproved. What about continuing education for yourself and relying on web sites that are reliable ( I could put up a site with a new cure for vaccine side-effect, with DrZone, M.D. behind it, does it make it true??)? Of course any treatments have side-effects. You may not have patients that have polio but I still have some that can't walk properly because of it. Can't think of any one that are disabled from the vaccine however. Granted, for example, nobody died of tetanus in the last 50 years in Canada, but I rather have a few minor side effect than being that first case of tetanus. All about risk and benefits, you've got to do the math for yourself. Same as heading down that black diamond. I say this to many regarding vaccine: if you are well informed and don't get the vaccine, and you get the disease, that's your choice and I'm actually OK with it. However, if you infect someone else (and that's typically someone close to you) because of that choice, can you live with yourself? I wonder if there was a vaccine for that bird flu, and bird flu became more prevalent, whether you would hold the same statements. Prevention as a general rule works so much better than treatment. Of course, we see more minor side effects and the rare serious ones, in North America than the actual disease because of vaccines reducing the incidence of those diseases to almost inexistant. However, you just need to step out of North America to see the seriousness of the diseases, and that vaccine do work. I was ready to let go of the whole arguments about risk/benefits thing, until you threw in the autism crap. Cheers. PS: not the right forum for this anyway, so I'll stop venting here, haha. Riding is so much more dangerous and fun than the whole vaccine thing, so that's what I should stick with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Holly crap Dr D , that's old news that is now long disapproved. What about continuing education for yourself and relying on web sites that are reliable ( I could put up a site with a new cure for vaccine side-effect, with DrZone, M.D. behind it, does it make it true??)?Of course any treatments have side-effects. You may not have patients that have polio but I still have some that can't walk properly because of it. Can't think of any one that are disabled from the vaccine however. Granted, for example, nobody died of tetanus in the last 50 years in Canada, but I rather have a few minor side effect than being that first case of tetanus. All about risk and benefits, you've got to do the math for yourself. Same as heading down that black diamond. I say this to many regarding vaccine: if you are well informed and don't get the vaccine, and you get the disease, that's your choice and I'm actually OK with it. However, if you infect someone else (and that's typically someone close to you) because of that choice, can you live with yourself? I wonder if there was a vaccine for that bird flu, and bird flu became more prevalent, whether you would hold the same statements. Prevention as a general rule works so much better than treatment. Of course, we see more minor side effects and the rare serious ones, in North America than the actual disease because of vaccines reducing the incidence of those diseases to almost inexistant. However, you just need to step out of North America to see the seriousness of the diseases, and that vaccine do work. I was ready to let go of the whole arguments about risk/benefits thing, until you threw in the autism crap. Cheers. PS: not the right forum for this anyway, so I'll stop venting here, haha. Riding is so much more dangerous and fun than the whole vaccine thing, so that's what I should stick with. I would love to see an honest study disproving the "theory" so lets have it. I hope you are not relying on NIH, CDC, or FDA data. If nothing else follow the money. If pharma money funded the study how can you as a legitimate scientific mind, justify the results? Study after study is ditched halfway through the process because the results don't fit the model. Who coopted science and made it into what it is now i don't know but I'd like to choke the putz. you develop a theory then you test it and then you look at the results. Pharma does it the other way around ie. the results come first then we design a sudy that will produce those results and if horror of horrors it still doesn't go our way we'll just kill the study. I would also like to know who the genius valiantly struggling to produce an avian flu vaccine in time is. Kinda hard to predict just how that virus is going to mutate when it crosses over isn't it. I mean if the human variety does not yet exist at least in the form we are all quivering about just how are we going to make a viable vaccine from it? sounds like a bid to sell the federal government a massive stockpile of unworkable vaccine just to tame the fear of the masses. Oh and put a couple billion in some companies pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Holly crap Dr D , that's old news that is now long disapproved. please enlighten me. if by long since disproved you mean since 2000 I'd love to see it. Even the NIH study came back saying that more study was needed. Thimerasol is being pulled somewhat reluctantly from new vaccines as we speak. Last I checked mercury was one of the most cytotoxic substances on the planet. Yes we give this to our kids. Avian flu is a whole other debacle. the human strain as it were does not yet exist so how is it we are making this vaccine that the federal government is going to buy and stockpile? kinda hard to predict how that virus is going to mutate isn't it? sounds like a scam to me lets scare the heck out of the little people and then get the government to buy a whole bunch of this stuff we make. easy money.. Hey it worked for small pox and anthrax didn't it. Its a whole new world for pharma. they don't need to get joe blow to harrass his Dr into prescribing GULLIBLEX after seeing 250 TV commercials if they can just get him scared enough to harrass his congressman. Let the Taxpayers foot the bill. Tamiflu is working out well people are now dieing from Tamiflu properly prescribed. medication is in the top five causes of death in this country. Understand I am not attacking any Doctor Its the system that is broken it is completely funded by drug companies from medical school to the FDA to the textbooks. to much undue influence at the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 we should take this discussion to email. I enjoy a heated debate but perhaps others are bored to tears. Feel free to email me at delaneycarlson@hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadx Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Well done Dr D. You are spot on. 'nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 ( Sorry Serious we got sidelined here) Can't comment about autism. Can comment about immunization induced stroke and subsequent disability. I worked several times with a young man who wanted to snowboard very badly. He only had about 10-15 percent use of the entire left side of his body. After working with them several times the cause of the disability came out and it was from immunization. Can't tell you which one or how, but his family was very up front about it. There are many sides to every view. Some of us have sources and resources that vary with experience. To just sit and swallow the government line about risk/benefit/cause/effect et al is the real crap. Depending on who you believe (remember knowledge/intelligence can be subjective) there are still some serious risks from immunization/vaccination that have not been rectified by the medical establishment. Granted they are in the sub 1 percent or 1/2 percent but if it is your kid that can't snowboard it might make you look at the numbers a little differently. Serious got a tet shot and he is happy with his decision. What needles you stick into your body is your own decision. So lets go ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jan Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 ( Sorry Serious we got sidelined here)Can't comment about autism. Can comment about immunization induced stroke and subsequent disability. I worked several times with a young man who wanted to snowboard very badly. He only had about 10-15 percent use of the entire left side of his body. After working with them several times the cause of the disability came out and it was from immunization. Can't tell you which one or how, but his family was very up front about it. Uh-huh. How do you (or they) know it was from the immunization? Somtimes (fortunately, fairly rarely) bad things happen to kids. SIDS, autism, seizures, strokes, etc. They've been happening for a long time. Even before the era of immunizations. But now that most kids are immunized at an early age, some kids will have something bad happen to them after an immunization, if only through an unlucky coincidence. So the quite natural response is to blame the shot. The fact that you worked with ONE person who got a stroke after an immunization proves NOTHING, and certainly does not make you an expert on the subject. The only way to get at the truth of the matter is to do controlled studies. And all the controlled studies (well, at least the well-designed ones) fail to show that immunizations cause autism, or strokes, or mental retardation, or whatever your boogaboo is. Of course, "dr" D and his paranoid ilk won't accept the results of scientific studies, dismissing them as part of the government-pharmaceutical conspiracy. I don't really mind people voicing their opinions, but when someone pretends to be a medical doctor and gives factually inaccurate (and potentially dangerous) advice, I'm going to call him on it. The original post was about tetanus, and "dr" D's assertion that you don't need to worry about it so long as you don't get horse feces in the wound is wrong. That's not just my opinion, that's a medical fact. You CAN get tetanus from a dirty wound, even if there's no horses or horse manure around. There's virtually no risk to getting a tetanus shot (well, there is the small risk of being allergic, but that's the same risk as being allergic to anything you put in your body, incuding any food or medicine), and there is a much greater risk of contracting tetanus from a dirty wound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfinsmiley Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Holly crap Dr D , that's old news that is now long disapproved. .................... autism crap. WOW, you should really tell that to my friends kid who was a healthy normal lil two year old and then got vaccinated ........10days later........ autistic paralysis. Was it just but luck that life took a sudden downward spiral a couple of weeks after her vaccination? The other expirence I`ve had with vaccines going crazy was a friend who came to visit me while I was living in Thailand, he got all dosed up with shots because he was scared of getting sick. Three days after he arrives he starts getting really sick. A few days more and he was purple colour with red pustules popping out all over his skin(he was literally bleeding from his skin all over his body), red urine and a 41 Celcius body temp. Emergency flight back to Australia, ends up he got three of the diseases he`d been immunized against all at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 still waiting! I challenge you to name one instance when tetanus was contracted from dust etc. I would also challenge you to step up and reveal your mysterious self. no profile and three of the 5 posts you have left on this board were uncalled for attacks on people you don't know. For the record I am not pretending to be anything. I am a Chiropractor not an MD and as a natural healthcare provider I am of course opposed to invasive techniques unless there is an emergency situation. Please take me to the hospital or one of the fine Orthopedics on this board if I smack a tree. However It is my personal experience and that of my patients, five generations in one case, that the human body is quite capable of protecting itself if it is functioning properly. There are other causes to some of the things you bring up of course but I suspect you would object to the as well. Birth trauma is a major cause of SIDS low apgar scores etc. Any assisted birth is by necessity a little tough on the cervical spine. home to the brain stem. I could go on and on but the bottom line is informed consent is a standard of care and it is missing from the equation in the case of vaccination. You and everyone else have a right to know all the possible scenarios before you have something injected into your body, before surgery or any other procedure. It just doesn't happen and when someone steps up and even asks a question out come the paranoid I know whats best for you better than you do types. take a break nobody is trying to steal your cookies. Its still a free country and my body is my temple not yours. It is interesting to note that the patriot act included some language initially that would have forced mass vaccination on all of you with or without your consent. the vaccination in question was half fifty yearold stock and half untested new stock made in a lab not yet recertified by the FDA after being closed due to infractions of the manufacturing safety variety. Yes a government contract awarded to a new company run by retired general I forget his name. Not in MY body and Not in my Children's either. If you would like to debate fine get your list of research andI will get mine and we'll go a few rounds. In the mean time read the above posts and the will of the board and take it somewhere else. Dr. Mercola loves a good fight or go enjoy the company at quackwatch.com the main dude there just lost a court battle over slander appears he didn't like people finding out he didn't pass the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 I just gets a little fired up when I listen to the same old sound bites:AR15firin Better hit the groom tomorow and work it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jan Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 still waiting! I challenge you to name one instance when tetanus was contracted from dust etc. I would also challenge you to step up and reveal your mysterious self. no profile and three of the 5 posts you have left on this board were uncalled for attacks on people you don't know. For the record I am not pretending to be anything. I am a Chiropractor ...<snip> Ok, I'm still waiting for you to present a study showing that tetanus is found in horse manure ONLY, and NOWHERE ELSE. Which was your original allegation, which got this whole arugment started. I do have to admit that I assumed (albeit correctly) that you're not a medical doctor strictly on the basis of your posts, without reading your profile. Knowing (as I do now) that you're a chiropractor does not change my opinion of you. If it would make you happy, I can tell you my credentials, but I doubt it would change your mind. Um, let's see, 3/5 were attacks? I only posted twice to this thread (this one is my third), so I think your math is a little off. I can understand why you think my calling you a quack is an attack, but considering your original allegation (see above), I think it was rather justified (nothing to do with chiropractors, either, although I can see why you might be sensitive that way). My other post was simply pointing out that having seen something once does not make you an expert on it. Hardly an uncalled for attack. Sometimes, you have to know when just to walk away. Like you might get sucked into a discussion of evolution vs creationism, and the creationist challenges you to provide scientific proof or explanation for this or that. You could go spend a few hours looking up the best scientific data, and then the creationist will challenge you to prove something else. And all this time you're in the library, there's snow in the mountains calling you. And then someone challenges you to prove that the earth is round. And all this time there's snow on the mountain. Well, it rained this morning, but then it got cold, and now there's a light snow falling. It's going to be good tomorrow, but not if I'm up all night looking up studies to buttress an arument I can't win and can't lose. Can't lose because the science is on my side, but can't win because my opponent uses science merely as a means to support a pre-conceived notion, rather than as a way to seek the truth. And so, I walk away. Peace, Snow, Tao. </snip> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 heh, Jan...please keep walking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Was proven by the government to be hazardous and I am still going to do that too. By the way you started the disrespectful part of this by throwing names. When my four year old does that she gets a timeout until she comes and tells me why that is not ok. Jan - do you need a timeout? Until you learn to respectfully disagree. Oh it doesn't matter how wronged or justified you feel calling people names is still wrong. It is an attack. It can hurt people. Which was your original allegation, which got this whole arugment started. I can understand why you think my calling you a quack is an attack, but considering your original allegation (see above), I think it was rather justified........My other post was simply pointing out that having seen something once does not make you an expert on it. Hardly an uncalled for attack. Can't lose because the science is on my side, but can't win because my opponent uses science merely as a means to support a pre-conceived notion, rather than as a way to seek the truth. And so, I walk away. Peace, Snow, Tao. </snip> I never claimed to be an expert - only that I had experienced personal contact with someone who was very damaged by immunization. YOu cant' win because there was no opponent. Other than a different view. Oh you can't lose for the same reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 AUTISM (Scientific Citations, Congressional Hearings, and Articles Linking Vaccines and Autism) This site documents correlations between vaccines and autism. <HR> Autism and the MMR (or Measles) Vaccine: Oleske, J. “Elevated rubeola [measles] titers in autistic children.” Abstract presented by D. Zecca and Dr. Graffino at an NIH meeting (September 23, 1997). As quoted by Richard Gallup in “ Autism and autoimmunity.” www.chiroweb.com/archives/18/14/10.html April 15, 2002. Fudenberg, H.H. “Dialysable lymphocyte extract (DlyE) in infantile onset autism: a pilot study.” Biotherapy 1996; 9:143-147. Gupta, S. “Immunology and immunologic treatment of autism. ” Proceedings of the National Autism Association, Chicago 1996: 455-460. Wakefield, A.J., et al. “Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia, non-specific colitis, and pervasive developmental disorder in children.” Lancet 1998; 351:637-641. Yazbak, F.E. “ Autism: Is there a vaccine connection? Part I. Vaccination after delivery.” 1999. www.garynull.com/documents/autism99b.htm Yazbak, F.E. “ Autism: Is there a vaccine connection? Part II. Vaccination around pregnancy.” 1999. www.garynull.com/documents/ autism99b2.htm Yazbak, F.E. “ Autism: Is there a vaccine connection? Part III. Vaccination around pregnancy, the sequel.” 2000. www.garynull.com/documents/autism99b3.htm “ Autism: Present Challenges, Future Needs—Why the Increased Rates?” Government Reform Committee Hearing, Washington, DC. (April 6, 2000.) Bernard, S., et al. “ Autism: a novel form of mercury poisoning,” (July 2000). Submitted to the Government Reform Committee Hearing, Washington, DC. (July 18, 2000.) www.house.gov/reform/healthcare/mercury_paper.htm “ Autism: Why the Increased Rates? A One-Year Update.” Government Reform Committee Hearing, Washington, DC. (April 25-26, 2001.) “The Autism Epidemic: Is the NIH and CDC Response Adequate?” Government Reform Committee Hearing, Washington, DC. (April 18, 2002.) “The Status of Research into Vaccine Safety and Autism. ” Government Reform Committee Hearing, Washington, DC. (June 19, 2002.) Kawashima, K., et al. “Detection and sequencing of measles virus from peripheral mononuclear cells from patients with inflammatory bowel disease and autism. ” Digestive Diseases and Sciences (April 2000); 45:723-729. Reuters Medical News. “Measles persistence confirmed in some patients with IBD, autistic enterocolitis.” (June 20, 2000). www.id.medscape.com/reuters/prof/2000/ 06/06.20/20000620scie001.html Wakefield, A.J. et al. “Enterocolitis in children with developmental disorders.” American Journal of Gastroenterology 2000; 95(9):2154-2156. Wakefield, A., et al. “Measles, mumps and rubella vaccine: through a glass, darkly.” Adverse Drug Reaction and Toxicologica Reviews 2000; 19(4):265-283. Kiln MR , " Autism , inflammatory bowel disease, and MMR vaccine." Lancet 1998 May 2;351(9112):1358. Selway, "MMR vaccination and autism 1998. Medical practitioners need to give more than reassurance." BMJ 1998 Jun 13;316(7147):1824.</FONT> Nicoll A, Elliman D, Ross E, "MMR vaccination and autism 1998," MJ 1998 Mar 7;316(7133):715-716.</FONT> Lindley K J, Milla PJ, " Autism , inflammatory bowel disease, and MMR vaccine." Lancet 1998 Mar 21;351(9106):907-908.</FONT> Bedford H, et al, " Autism , inflammatory bowel disease, and MMR vaccine." Lancet 1998 Mar 21;351(9106):907.</FONT> Vijendra K. Singh, Sheren X. Lin, and Victor C. Yang, "Serological Association of Measles Virus and Human Herpesvirus-6 with Brain Autoantibodies in Autism ," Clinical Immunology and Immunopathology , Oct 1998, Vol. 89, No. 1, p 105-108. Studies "Disproving" a Link Between MMR and Autism (These Two "Studies" Were Later Exposed and Rejected as Being Scientifically Illegitimate.): Peltola, et al. “No evidence for measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine-associated inflammatory bowel disease or autism in a 14-year prospective study.” Lancet 1998; 351:1327-1328. Taylor, et al. “ Autism and measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine: no epidemiological evidence for a causal association.” Lancet 1999; 353:2026-2029. Autism and the Smallpox Vaccine: Eggers, C, " Autistic Syndrome (Kanner) and Vaccinations against Smallpox", Klin Paediatr , Mar 1976, 188(2):172-180.</FONT> </FONT></FONT> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoetrencher Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Thanks DRZone, See Jan, there are MDs with hardboots and good sense. "MD", DrD, stands for medical doctorate not medical dogma. Sorry to hear about the entire school you infected- but at least ,as you mentioned, whooping cough is no big deal. 3 feet of freshies- got to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jan Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 By the way you started the disrespectful part of this by throwing names. When my four year old does that she gets a timeout until she comes and tells me why that is not ok. Jan - do you need a timeout? Until you learn to respectfully disagree. Oh it doesn't matter how wronged or justified you feel calling people names is still wrong. It is an attack. It can hurt people. I never claimed to be an expert (sigh... they just keep asking for more) Ok, just exactly what name did I call you? Huh? I pointed out that you shouldn't automatically believe every allegation you hear, and I said you're not an expert, something you yourself confirm. So where's the name calling? How is that an attack? Or is it more of a double standard, when you disagree with me, it's a "respectful disagreement," but when I do the same to you, it's "throwing names"? Isn't accusing someone of "throwing names" in itself a form of name-calling, an ad-hominem attack? Especially when it's not true? If you can't stand being disagreed with, then you really should stay out of these discussions. Go ride the Magic Carpet with the other kiddies. But maybe I misunderstood your post. Maybe you don't think I called you any names, you're just reacting to my "qack" comment directed at Dr D. Well, I don't think the good chiropractor needs you to come to his defense, he seems perfectly capable of holding his own (actually, I'd say he's better at it than you - oh, I can hear it now, you're going to be offended again, please don't cry little baby, here's an ice cream cone). And I already offered a sufficient explanation of that remark, so if you disagree please direct your comments at the points I made (which I feel were valid, but if you disagree, I'd like to hear your side), rather than simply calling me a "name-caller." What a cop-out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadx Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Jan,<O:p</O:p It's not that you have a differing opinion. It's the manner in which you present it. Not that you should have to be all warm and cuddly; this is an adult debate after all. But every one of your posts has contained at least one instance of name calling, insult, or just plain poor judgment in your manner of presentation if you are trying to actually share information rather than prompting a knee-jerk defensive reaction from people. Not that others on here don't sometimes behave in a similar manner after the debate escalates, but when your opening post had the title 'What a quack', it was likely that many a reader automatically dismissed you before you even began. And you further that by continuing to use phrases like:<O:p</O:p "or whatever your boogaboo is." "Dr. D and his paranoid ilk" "oh, I can hear it now, you're going to be offended again, please don't cry little baby, here's an ice cream cone" "Go ride the Magic Carpet with the other kiddies." If you would like to share some resources, as Dr. D did, please do so. I am not going to ask about your profession or back ground because it really has no bearing on the subject, in my opinion. It goes without saying that a person does not need to be an MD to be educated and form ideas from valid research performed by others. <O:p</O:p All, We've highjacked this thread long enough. I've started a new thread in the "off topic" section to continue for those that would like to discuss further. Please use the following link for any further postings on this topic. Thanks. <O:p</O:p http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=10354 <O:p</O:p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Serious best of luck on the healing process man. You did come away from the experience a smarter man. whether from the lesson learned the hard way or from all the hot air expended on this thread. Sorry for setting the world on fire it was intended in all good faith and humour. remember chicks dig scars now you just have to dream up a good manly excuse for how you got it. old war wound from your specwar days or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Dasai Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 ...if you are well informed and don't get the vaccine, and you get the disease, that's your choice and I'm actually OK with it. However, if you infect someone else (and that's typically someone close to you) because of that choice, can you live with yourself?... The problem with this argument is that it assumes that vaccination is effective in preventing the disease. That's not clear at all. I can turn the argument around and ask you how you'd feel if you were vaccinated, got the disease, and then infected somebody else. Anyway, I managed an interesting injury when my rear binding released mid-carve and in the resulting tumble the board sliced a short but very deep gash in my arm. Through a goretex jacket, a thick fleece, and two layers of polypro, and then deep, deep to the bone. I didn't realize the extent of the damage until my jacket started filling up with blood. The best part was getting to use surgical glue. That stuff is much more fun than stitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jan Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 The problem with this argument is that it assumes that vaccination is effective in preventing the disease. That's not clear at all. I can turn the argument around and ask you how you'd feel if you were vaccinated, got the disease, and then infected somebody else. That vaccines prevent disease is quite clear. Maybe not with 100% efficacy, but certainly a lot better than not getting vaccinated. I think you're assuming that a vaccine can transmit the disease it's supposed to prevent. That is incorrect. There are some historical exceptions, but the vaccines in common usage nowadays do not contain the actual live bugs that cause the illness. So if you get, say, the HepB vaccine, there is no way you can contract hepatitis from it. Can't happen, because no HepB viruses are used in the making of the vaccine. A lot of people are under this misconception, I think because of their experience with flu shots. When you get a vaccine, it stimulates an immune response in your body, similar to what happens when you get sick. So the side effects of a vaccine are just like a mild flu-like illness, but shorter in duration, milder, and without the complications that the disease itself can cause. But most people just assume that the reason they feel bad after a flu shot is because they got the flu. ("mild" is a relative term. A few months ago I got both a flu shot and a Pneumovax, at the same time and in the same deltoid. I was pretty miserable for a few days. But I've had the flu once before, and the flu was worse - not just that the symproms were more severe, but it lasted much, much longer) The big difference is, no matter how bad you feel after a flu shot, you're not infectious to others. Which is why I get vaccinated - I can survive a bout of the flu, but some of my patients can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfinsmiley Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Just give it 20-30 more years of practise and you might change your mind on alot of your pre-conceptions Jan. I know alot of MDs` that have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.