transsib Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hi! I live in Germany but as I prefer the Bomber-style instead of EC I thought that it might be better to ask my question here. Well - as my carving gets better and I am able to go faster and lower in the curves my fitness-problems start to grow. I can do just a few runs with flexed knees until my legs are burning. When I try to go all the way down to the snow I even have the feeling that I can't hold the pressure at all. How do you guys handle curves like that: Is there a special trick? Maybe a special training? As I go running every second day I thought that my shape is not too bad!? Maybe it is worse than I thought!? Are you guys able to drive like that 6 hours a day for a whole week? Thanks for your answers in advance! With best regards, Oliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 This is a good question! I've wondered the same thing. But...I think this question also relates to a basic technique question: the technique shown in that image above (which we all see a lot) and race technique. My point being, you'd rarely (or never) see a slalom racer in a position like that, not least of which because the rider's CG is nowhere near his inside edge, which reduces edge-holding power enormously. Racers say "keep your CG over your edge at all times," which makes good sense to me...and yet a significant number of hardbooters seem to often do anything but keep their CG over the edge! (Eurocarving being the most extreme example.) What's going on here? Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davekempmeister Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I am not a particularly good carver - I freeride with hardboots for the most part. That having been said, I do enjoy the G's and have found a mixture of cycling, yoga, squats and running steps are ideally suited to the demands of riding at speed and handling the physics that result from mixing speed and turns. Intuitively, it seems to me that rollerblading/skating and other sports that require more lateral foot and leg work would be helpful. Perhaps someone else could weigh in from that perspective. All the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 When we train and ride at our full potentail most of my athletes are toast after 3-4 hours. Sad but true. Carving at a high level takes a ton of strength and you shouldn't expect to be able to push your body that hard for 6+ hours. Imagine going to the gym and doing sets of squats for 6 hours. You probably wouldn't be able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dudleydudley Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiujitsu seems to be working pretty well for me this season. I have a lot more leg strength and endurance. Except when I get caught in a sloppy knee-bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Running is great for cardio fitness, but you need some muscular endurance. One really good exercise for that is wall sits. Sit with your back against a wall, shins vertical, thighs parallel to the floor, as if you were in a chair. Hold that position for a time. Then get up, take a break for a minute or two, go back and do it again. Try 3 sets of 30 seconds to start, if that's too easy make the time longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hockey - twice a week. And I quit at 1:00 ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDZal Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Squats, lunges, deadlifts, straight-legged deadlifts... Oh yeah, I didn't do much exercise other than snowboarding when I was snowboarding. Probably my favorite exercise is running up a steep hill. But from the little experience I have, I know that for pure strength you will get no better results than from a weighted exercise regime. Without weight, hindu squats are good (and fun) as are regular squats and one-legged squats on a low chair or bench. Hindu squats are like regular squats but your legs are possibly more splayed, and your hands are raised in front of you at a 90 degree angle at the top and lowered behind your hips at the bottom - in addition you go on your toes at the bottom instead of keeping your heels flat to the floor. Olympic lifts are the best by far (snatch, clean and press), these feel absolutely incredible, but you need at least some of the other ones to be able to do them well (it is best to get help with these so that you don't hurt yourself - you can find some good descriptions on the web, but most of them will also advise personal supervision - also many gyms don't have the equipment, which is just a bar, pad, and rubberized weights...). I would recommend these the highest by far if your back is healthy. I will be doing these again at some point hopefully in the near future (I am recovering from assymmetry as a result of carving too damn hard on a stiff board and being "loose jointed" - my body just couldn't take it - now I am a skier but am still hooked on this site). With or without weights, make sure to do things like crunches and lower back exercises, as well as upper body exercises to even things out. See if you can find the Ski magazine exercises on the web, they have some good non-weighted exercises, or you should be able to find plenty more elsewhere. My favorite are olympic sit-ups, where you crunch and raise your legs to vertical at the same time. With that said, I haven't worked out much in a while. With most weighted exercises it is good to keep the repetitions above ten starting off, preferably at about 15 for a couple of weeks. 10 rep cleans feel great, whereas 10 rep squats are hell. Otherwise I like davekempmeister's suggestions. I hope to get a road bike at some point, or maybe a mountain bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 My training consists of large doses of steroids, caffeine, and some PCP to dull the pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Mountain biking seems to work well for me. After a summer of mountain biking even just a couple times a week for a half an hour to an hour, my legs don't seem to have any problems. But I really work the legs, if I'm not pushing hard, I'm off the saddle as much as I can. I sometimes go to an office building on the 17th floor, and I take the stairs. It's tough but it really helps. I run up all 17 floors. I've always had to rest in the middle for a few minutes, but I hope someday to make it all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackDan Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Well, one thing is to just ride more. You'll build up more strength and endurance over time. I swim and bike, and do a bit of weight lifting. Yeah I know you're going to say "how does swimming help strengthen the legs for carve boarding"?. Well my answer to that is evertime you turn at the wall, you do a squat, and the harder you push off the more of a workout you get. If you swim a mile in a 25 yard pool you will push off the wall 70 times, in the short period it takes you to swim that 1760 yards (So that's like doing 70 squat reps in 25 minutes). The biking obviously is a long distance single leg extension/squat exercise over the 1-2-3 hours you go out for a ride. Climbing steep hills helps develop those leg muscles good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P06781 Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Well, one thing is to just ride more. You'll build up more strength and endurance over time.I swim and bike, and do a bit of weight lifting. Yeah I know you're going to say "how does swimming help strengthen the legs for carve boarding"?. Well my answer to that is evertime you turn at the wall, you do a squat, and the harder you push off the more of a workout you get. If you swim a mile in a 25 yard pool you will push off the wall 70 times, in the short period it takes you to swim that 1760 yards (So that's like doing 70 squat reps in 25 minutes). The biking obviously is a long distance single leg extension/squat exercise over the 1-2-3 hours you go out for a ride. Climbing steep hills helps develop those leg muscles good. +1 on the swim thing. Its an awesome no impact way to work out. Doing the breast stroke kick really helps with the legs in its squeezing like contractions to build powerful carving muscles. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDZal Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 mmmmm.... swimming..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 mmmmmmmmm....................hot tubing..........................with hot ladies...............................mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transsib Posted February 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 :) Thank you very much for your kind answers! So - I think I have to do some more training for my legs. A friend told me that I should simply not sit down on the toilet and keep my butt a few centimeters above it. I already tried it - it's damned hard - especially when the missions lasts a little bit longer! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfinsmiley Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 on a side thought... anybody have any idea how many G's they are pulling during their turns? I have wondered about this for a while. I started wondering about that the first time I did a fully railed turn and got compressed into my board. I can squat close to my own weight so I`m guessing I must be pulling 2G`s when I get squashed into my board sometimes, and I`m only a beginer carver. The good guys must pull incredible G`s! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transsib Posted February 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 I read somewhere something about 3Gs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackDan Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 The force down (your mass) equals the force up (earth holding up your weight). To remain balanced you always have to support your body weight or you will fall over. When you are standing straight up 100% of your weight is on your feet, which happen to be directly below you. Straight up means that you body angle is 90 degrees to the surface your standing on and the sin(angle) of 90 degrees = 1. when you are at an angle to the earth (in a carve) the force down (straight down from your CG) is still your weight (mass), but the sideways force has to balance that, so you don't fall over. The side force plus the down force (your weight) combines to be one force acting down your central axis, i.e. through your legs and the board. So the simple answer is that the force you feel in your legs is body weight times 1/sin(angle). So I weigh 170# and lets say my true central angle from my CG through the board is 45 degrees. 170 x 1/sin(45) = 170x 1/.7071 = 170 x 1.4142 = 240# of force, or 1.4142 G's If you can get to a true 30 degrees to the snow, thats 2 Gs, and 19.5 degrees is 3 Gs, 14.5 degrees is 4 Gs, 11.5 is 5 Gs. But now I said true angle of your CG through the board. This is not where your hand or your head is at. You might have your head pretty close to the snow, but your BUTT is sticking way up in the air, and your central angle is probably about 20-40 degrees. And this is for a stable turn, with ALL of your weight on your board, entering and exiting the turn. If you put your hand on the snow, you take some of the load off your feet and you decrease the G load. If you crash or skid out during the turn you were not balanced and did not experience the real G load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 way to go with the math. I was ready to pull out some of my phyiscs knowledge. My fave subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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