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My helmet project...


Ray
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So after a long time searching I finally found an MT1 Carbon fiber full face helmet at a local shop (go figure), but with such an ugly paint and design job that I decided to strip it down and get it painted by a local guy here who paints mostly Harleys and such things. I wanted a "simple" black design (to match my Virus. They are all black now), have some of the Carbon fiber exposed and didn't put me back by a million dollars!

Also told the painter not use to much paint… hey, all weight to carry right! :p

So today I got the last small replacement parts and was ably to put it back together… Really happy about the final look.

<img src="http://tinypic.com/m7g93q.jpg" alt="Image hosting by TinyPic">

<img src="http://tinypic.com/m7g7cg.jpg" alt="Image hosting by TinyPic">

<img src="http://tinypic.com/m7g9pd.jpg" alt="Image hosting by TinyPic">

<img src="http://tinypic.com/m7ga55.jpg" alt="Image hosting by TinyPic">

Very curious how long it will look like this :D

Ray

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Guest owaysys

wow, that does look cool. I have an MT-1 that looks like the same model. It's ugly as hell, with dragons on the sides. Do you know if this one is carbon fiber, too? I always thought it was fiberglas?

post-2137-141842212293_thumb.jpg

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wow, that does look cool. I have an MT-1 that looks like the same model. It's ugly as hell, with dragons on the sides. Do you know if this one is carbon fiber, too? I always thought it was fiberglas?

hmm, good question. I don't know if yours is carbon fiber as well, but you should be able to tell from how the inside looks... take off the ear pads and you should be able to see. OR, just strip it down :p

I don't think yours looks so bad actually. You should have seen mine before :lol:

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Have you checked if the helmet is still under warranty and if it is still safe after that. For every helmet I owned, the manual said that warranty is no good and helmet is not safe if sticker or paint are applied if I am not mistaken.

Even though the Helmet came with stickers and paint I am pretty sure the warranty is no good anymore… like the one for all my Giro helmets… Warranty is only good for one year. Also, this helmet was discontinued ’02 I think, so I am not even sure if it still would be covered anyway… But, I checked in terms of prepping and applying new paint to the carbon fiber. A very good friend of mine builds carbon fiber racecar parts in Germany… Paint does not change the durability of the fiber. Just don't put it in an oven to dry or harden the paint...

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wow, this one really looks great man!!! but, it seems i am the only one with the following problem; often i touch the snow with my chin or even the nose (sometimes a bit painfull yes, when the slopes are really icy...). so when i ride with a helmet with chinprotector, it strokes the helmet backwarts and push the goggles down. so no more sight!

has this 'mt' helmet a special form or fit?

roman

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Even though the Helmet came with stickers and paint I am pretty sure the warranty is no good anymore… like the one for all my Giro helmets… Warranty is only good for one year. Also, this helmet was discontinued ’02 I think, so I am not even sure if it still would be covered anyway… But, I checked in terms of prepping and applying new paint to the carbon fiber. A very good friend of mine builds carbon fiber racecar parts in Germany… Paint does not change the durability of the fiber. Just don't put it in an oven to dry or harden the paint...

The paint may not change the durability of the fibre, but it may change the durability of the binding resin. And as you said you'd 'stripped' it, I assume you used something to clean it up? Also generally seen as a no-no.

Still, it's a helmet that is what - over 4 years old now? It's well out of its safety period, and fit only for the bin.

Still, it looks very nice. I wouldn't want to trust my head to it, but it looks very nice.

Simon

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The paint may not change the durability of the fibre, but it may change the durability of the binding resin. And as you said you'd 'stripped' it, I assume you used something to clean it up? Also generally seen as a no-no.

Still, it's a helmet that is what - over 4 years old now? It's well out of its safety period, and fit only for the bin.

Still, it looks very nice. I wouldn't want to trust my head to it, but it looks very nice.

Simon

The durability of the carbon fiber resin is also not changing if paint is applied. Several tests have proven that. Especially for parts used in extreme situations i.e. race cars! Parts are being prept and painted all the time. In terms of the clean up, we used simple rubbing alcohol.

The Helmet is 4 years old because they stopped making them 4 years ago. But it was brand new out of the box. That's new, or?

I hope the material didn't just go bad like a banana would.

For the bin? :nono:

Another thing, I consider this group of helmets (Ski, BMX, skateboard ect.) anyway not as a guarantee against injury. If you really like to be protected, get a motorcycle helmet, they protect your head! BUT who would do that :p

I guess the goal is to prevent any accidents as good and long as possible and get as many days in the meantime without (major) harm.

Ray

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The durability of the carbon fiber resin is also not changing if paint is applied. Several tests have proven that. Especially for parts used in extreme situations i.e. race cars! Parts are being prept and painted all the time. In terms of the clean up, we used simple rubbing alcohol.

Well, that depends very much on what paint is being applied, how much of it, what outgassing occurs during curing, how that outgassing affects the resin that was used to make the piece, etc etc.

Which bits of race cars get painted? I can almost guarantee that the carbon parts that have to deal with stresses and not painted in any way, and that even if they are, they are dealt with in a very controlled manner. Remember, when you're making a race car you know _exactly_ what resins were used, what proportions or resin to curer to fibre, what temperatures the autoclave was running at when the piece was manufactured, all that stuff.

What you're doing is not even remotely comparable. You've taken an out-of-date helmet made with some unknown resin mix and some other unknown reinforcement, stripped it using rubbing alcohol, and then applied another paint which is full of other unknown chemicals to it. You might be safe, you might not. That's all.

The Helmet is 4 years old because they stopped making them 4 years ago. But it was brand new out of the box. That's new, or?

I hope the material didn't just go bad like a banana would.

If a helmet has aged for four years, even in its box, it's four years old; it's no longer new. Helmet materials do age (admittedly mostly through UV action and being knocked about), and they have a shelf life. I wouldn't trust my head to a questionable helmet,[1] although it is likely that manufacturer's claims of helmet lifespan are highly conservative.

Another thing, I consider this group of helmets (Ski, BMX, skateboard ect.) anyway not as a guarantee against injury. If you really like to be protected, get a motorcycle helmet, they protect your head! BUT who would do that

Tests for ski helmets are different to tests for motorcycle helmets, it's true. Over here, EN1077 for ski helmets and ECE 22-05 for bike helmets. EN1077 covers, among other things, "Visibility, Field of vision, Shock-absorbing materials, Penetration tests, Mechanical testing, Impact testing, Strength of materials, Durability, Ageing tests". Helmet manufacturers simply wouldn't be allowed / financially able to sell helmets if they didn't meet rigorous standards, and those standards are designed to cover the activities for which the helmet is designed.

Standards testing is, I believe, carried out not against a range of helmets, but against all the various colours and paint schemes within a range of helmets, at least in the motorcycle world.

In the same way that I would not trust bicycle tyres on a motorcycle, I would trust a dedicated ski helmet in a ski crash more than I would trust a motorcycle helmet in a ski crash, and vice versa for motorcycle crashes. They are designed for fundamentally different things, which is why the standards applied to construction and testing are different.

Aaaaaaanyway, please don't take this as flamage, it's not how it's intended. All you should be aware of is that by taking a (presumably out of manufacturer's sell by date) helmet and modifying it, you have absolutely no comeback against the manufacturer should it fail. And that if in some bizarre accident it should fail in such a way as to injure someone else, it would be you that was liable.

Simon

[1] Of course, I don't have much of a leg to stand on in the "I wouldn't use it" argument, as I've already stated that I don't wear a helmet when I'm boarding[2] :)

[2] ...although I am shopping for one.

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Well, that depends very much on what paint is being applied, how much of it, what outgassing occurs during curing, how that outgassing affects the resin that was used to make the piece, etc etc.

Which bits of race cars get painted? I can almost guarantee that the carbon parts that have to deal with stresses and not painted in any way, and that even if they are, they are dealt with in a very controlled manner. Remember, when you're making a race car you know _exactly_ what resins were used, what proportions or resin to curer to fibre, what temperatures the autoclave was running at when the piece was manufactured, all that stuff.

What you're doing is not even remotely comparable. You've taken an out-of-date helmet made with some unknown resin mix and some other unknown reinforcement, stripped it using rubbing alcohol, and then applied another paint which is full of other unknown chemicals to it. You might be safe, you might not. That's all.

If a helmet has aged for four years, even in its box, it's four years old; it's no longer new. Helmet materials do age (admittedly mostly through UV action and being knocked about), and they have a shelf life. I wouldn't trust my head to a questionable helmet,[1] although it is likely that manufacturer's claims of helmet lifespan are highly conservative.

Tests for ski helmets are different to tests for motorcycle helmets, it's true. Over here, EN1077 for ski helmets and ECE 22-05 for bike helmets. EN1077 covers, among other things, "Visibility, Field of vision, Shock-absorbing materials, Penetration tests, Mechanical testing, Impact testing, Strength of materials, Durability, Ageing tests". Helmet manufacturers simply wouldn't be allowed / financially able to sell helmets if they didn't meet rigorous standards, and those standards are designed to cover the activities for which the helmet is designed.

Standards testing is, I believe, carried out not against a range of helmets, but against all the various colours and paint schemes within a range of helmets, at least in the motorcycle world.

In the same way that I would not trust bicycle tyres on a motorcycle, I would trust a dedicated ski helmet in a ski crash more than I would trust a motorcycle helmet in a ski crash, and vice versa for motorcycle crashes. They are designed for fundamentally different things, which is why the standards applied to construction and testing are different.

Aaaaaaanyway, please don't take this as flamage, it's not how it's intended. All you should be aware of is that by taking a (presumably out of manufacturer's sell by date) helmet and modifying it, you have absolutely no comeback against the manufacturer should it fail. And that if in some bizarre accident it should fail in such a way as to injure someone else, it would be you that was liable.

Simon

[1] Of course, I don't have much of a leg to stand on in the "I wouldn't use it" argument, as I've already stated that I don't wear a helmet when I'm boarding[2] :)

[2] ...although I am shopping for one.

The helmet Nazi has spoken! :D

I agree with what you are saying but He still has a bitching paint job on his helmet.

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I agree with what you are saying but He still has a bitching paint job on his helmet.

Hell, yeah. It looks very well done, the flame thing isn't really my cup 'o tea, but it's certainly not boring.

Oh, and using the "n" word, even in jest, with people over here really causes a lot of offence. Best not to.

1/2 shot Jagermeister® herbal liqueur

1/2 shot Rumple Minze® peppermint liqueur

Simon

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Simon,

First of all, I don’t take this as flamage. It seems you know about this more than most people and I appreciate all input. You actually made me go back to make sure what we did was done right!

The paint used was a PU based paint, basically the same paint that aerospace and my friends in Germany use for their carbon fiber race car parts. They paint all their carbon fiber parts including the wishbone suspension parts! They need to because the epoxy is not 100% UV resistant (but mostly only discoloration). Only parts not exposed to sunlight are not painted in their fabrication due to additional weight savings…

The carbon fiber should be fully functional for many many years to come, no expiration date here.

Now the actual impact absorber of a ski helmet, the molded EPS (expanded polystyrene) inner liner was a way bigger concern I had. I checked this with Giro. They said the EPS does not go bad over the years of regular storing, as long as it was not exposed to excess heat or so, it will be good. The EPS liner on my MT1 was completely taken out of the shell before any prepping or painting. So no contact with any fumes at all during the process.

I am not expecting to have this helmet under warranty. I know that (Warranty is only good for one year), but with all the research done before we started this project, I feel comfortable enough to wear it.

For sure much more comfortable than using no helmet…what I did years ago… now I feel naked if riding without it.

BTW. Any Polycarbonate / thermoplastic material most helmet manufacture use, I would never paint! That stuff actually can act up with paint.

Ray

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Simon,

First of all, I don’t take this as flamage. It seems you know about this more than most people and I appreciate all input. You actually made me go back to make sure what we did was done right!

Ace. Didn't want to be seen as being overly agressive / negative, but I've seen a few dodgily modified helmets in my time, and the results of that, both humourous and not so.

Sounds like you've done your homework, and I'm sorry if what I said was all old news to you. Have fun. I'm still not sure that I'd trust your helmet 100%, but hey, it's liable to be a long way better than my current bobble hat, so let's leave it at that.

Shame you're so far away, though. My VF500 needs a new paintjob, and it seems like your paint guy is pretty damn good.

As a vaguely amusing aside, story concerning the only other person I know who wasn't a pro bike racer and who had a professional custom paintjob done on a helmet. Let's call him "X" (and no, this was not me, this is the story as told to me)

"X" spends 2 months wages on helmet plus custom paint job. Helmet arrives back from shop. "X" heads off on bike, with newly painted helmet, for a few drinks with buddies. "X" has a few too many, decides to leave bike and go home with someone else. Who has also had a few too many, and highsides the bike. "X" is flying through the air, and realises that a: he's not got gloves on, they are in the paniers of his bike. b: he's wearing a very expensively custom painted helmet. c: the road is coming up fast. "X" does what all sane human beings would do and puts bare hands over helmet to protect it. After all, he can grow new knuckles, right?

Don't do that :)

Simon

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