RicHard Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Hello everybody. I think that all of us know that, in order to improve the ability to carve, there's the need to use flexion and extension. But... which purposes (phisically) are they useful for? And in which part of the flexion/extension the pressure on the board is at the most (for example in a cross-over carve)? I've got my own idea but I think that there will be a lot of ideas that are different each other... :-) Thanks a lot for your opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicHard Posted January 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Wow!... no-one knows why the flexion/extension are needed to carve better... or... everybody is sure that what he knows is right! :D Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Yeah, I'm really the last one who should be answering this, but I think you extend to really set the edge when board is doing most of the turning and has the most force trying to break it free, and then you bring it back toward you to help unweight it and help disengage the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 ...well, a active flexion/extension lightens the weight that is currently on the carvin edge. actually the change of direction is made, when you rotate the body befor or after the flexion/extension and bring the needed weight on the other edge to carve again...it's the way i snowboard! roman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicHard Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I see that answers underline the need to unweight the edge on the edge change but the main purpose of the flexion/extension movement is to pressure the edge in the moment you need the most of the pressure on the edge (where the forces to balance are so strong). But...since I'm still wondering why nobody (except you, guys: thanks a lot for your answers) here want to share his thought about (It could be really helpful for many, it could lead to understand why you have to, instead of just know that you have to)... I would leave this thread going away. Thanks a lot once more, roman and serious, for your answers. ;-) Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Richard there are only a few people here who like to discuss the physics of "the turn" as much as they like makin em. Plus...Im sure some of even those might be tired of talkin about it... you just gotta wait for the ones that love to talk tech to come along. they're here me, Id rather just ride when I feel like it, flaws/lack of knowledge and all. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Richardthere are only a few people here who like to discuss the physics of "the turn" as much as they like makin em. Plus...Im sure some of even those might be tired of talkin about it... you just gotta wait for the ones that love to talk tech to come along. they're here me, Id rather just ride when I feel like it, flaws/lack of knowledge and all. :) after the basics I could care less, just like to ride and play with new gear as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 there are only a few people here who like to discuss the physics of "the turn" as much as they like makin em. Plus...Im sure some of even those might be tired of talkin about it...you just gotta wait for the ones that love to talk tech to come along. they're here Heh, people like me? ;) I love talking about that stuff, but my prime postwhoring time is in September and October, when I'm really jonesing for snowboarding but there's no snow on the hills. Now that the snow is good all I do is ride :) RicHard, I assume you are talking about the push/pull turn of the extremecarvers? This is my take on the flexion/extension (or push pull) carve, starting with a different situation, but drawing an analogy at the end: Non-geeks, you may turn away now and just "go out and ride" like I will tomorrow night :p 1) Picture yourself riding fast and straight on a flat run. In front of you is a little gully 5-10 feet across and 3 feet deep that cuts across the hill (maybe there is a creek there during the summer). Anybody who has rides off-piste often has run into something like this from a windlip around a fallen log, etc. 2) If you ride fully compressed or fully extended, you have a feeling of going weightless as you enter (and fall into) the gully, and then huge G-forces when you start riding up the other side of the gully. * If you were fully extended then you probably pancaked on the uphill section of the gully or got launched airborne at the end. * If you were fully compressed you probably made it across successfully, but the tremendous G-forces may have knocked you off balance, especially if you weren't perfectly centered. Hence, compressed is better than extended. 3) However, most good riders would have started fully compressed, extended their legs as they fall into the gully, and pulled their legs back up as they exit the gully. They try to keep their head at about the same height throughout, while their feet follow the contour of the ground. So even though the compressed stance is better than extended, the movement from extended to compressed during the uphill section with high-G-forces is better than either. The analogy to carving: 1) In a big, arcing, freecarver turn (not a quick race turn), the beginning of the carve (when the downhill edge is engaged) is perceptually weightless, and then at the end of the carve the G-forces are extreme, just like entering and exiting the hypothetical gully in the previous example. 2) Extending during the weightless section and then pulling up during the high G-force section reduces the sudden buildup of G-force at the end of the carve, which is usually what throws me out of position and possibly out of balance, just like in the gully example. 3) For me, pulling up at point the G-forces start to feel like they are overwhelming my weak (post-surgery) knees improves the stability of my carve. When the G-forces are highest I am fully compressed again in my pathetic attempt at proper "bomber stance" anyways, so my body is as fully angulated as it ever gets when it really starts to count. That's my take on it, anyways. For me, extension during the beginning of the carve is simply me making deposits into the G-force bank that I take out again at the end of the carve, when it starts getting bad. The better solution might be to simply go apecrazy on the legpress machine during the offseason so that it is not necessary to reduce the maximum G-force, but pulling up at the end of the turn makes the turns feel elegant anyways. In closing, I would like to make the final argument that your pictures (RicHard) are totally awesome, so no matter how you ride, you win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 I see that answers underline the need to unweight the edge on the edge change but the main purpose of the flexion/extension movement is to pressure the edge in the moment you need the most of the pressure on the edge (where the forces to balance are so strong)..... you're right man! no question 'bout that...! my english could't describe it this good. seems we are doing the same turns in the snow! ride on. roman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 ...by the way, i am only a 'skidder'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.