ar(angel Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Alright people I need your help here. In a thread awhile back someone mentioned that the "new" (read post 02/03 season models) Silberpfiels don't need the Conshox because the newer design construction has eliminated the need for this in the topsheet. I'd like some input from those that have either ridden both or are currently riding the newer version Silberpfiels specifically on how they perform, i.e. flex, ease of transition (edge to edge), edge hold, blah blah blah. I'm contemplating selling my older Silberpfiel with the Conshox and don't want to let it go until I get some good feedback/opinions on the newer ones. I ride a 168cm right now and would like info from 168-172cm riders. I'm 195lbs 6'3" with about 4 seasons on a alpine set-up. Anything you can offer will be appreciated. Thanks, Paul p.s. pic of my current ride is attached Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Houghton Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 The only way to know for sure is to demo the new one yourself - then you can decide. No way the new ones are as stiff without the Conshox as the old ones with the Conshox. Whether they need the Conshox or not, that's a personal evaluation. I found the Conshox on the old board just made a mediocre board worse of course that's only my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Did you know that Frank / virus invented the conshox loooong ago... I saw an old one he made as prototype before the idea was taken by F2. Never tried the concept, wondering if its really usefull.. Seems Madd and Tinkler use the same idea but just glue their to the board is that correct? N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 actually I think the Tinklers are bolted on...just what I've seen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotts.Scheinman Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 I hope my siberfeil comes soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istvan Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 I think the one I have is the 01/02 model. I rode it with and without Conshox. I have the 172cm one and I was close to 100kg when I rode that board. The Conshox gave me more torsional stiffness, more grip on ice and in my opinion it also adds a bit more camber to the board so for me it felt a bit more lively and responsive with Conshox. Maybe with lighter weight it becomes way too stiff. Kindest, István Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istvan Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Sorry, I just realized that your question was more about the new SP without ConShox.... just disregard my message..... Ciao, István Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jared Q Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 I'm 5'-11, 180 lbs. and I have last years 172 Silberpfiel. It is a great freeride board, but feels really soft if you push it hard. I would like it to be just a little bit stiffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Day Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 ...I've noticed how many of you are talking about how soft the Silberpfiels' are. Now, I'm 5'4" tall ( or short! :) ) and 145 pounds and am, i think, an aggressive carver. I've been thinking about getting the 172. How do you guys think this board would suit me? Happy trails! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotts.Scheinman Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 ar)angel you are too obsessed with silberfeils. your aim is F2silberfeil. its just a plank of wood or w/e its made of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicHard Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I'm 5'-11, 180 lbs. and I have last years 172 Silberpfiel. It is a great freeride board, but feels really soft if you push it hard. I would like it to be just a little bit stiffer. Ehm... I know nothing about the 172 last year model but... I've got the 02/03 162 one and I don't know how it can be defined "freeride board". It's more stiff than a Slalom one, it's more narrow than a Slalom one, it has the square tail with the maximum of effective edge compared to its length and it cut the ice. How can you call it "freeride board"?! I really thing that some people is not riding their board but they are just standing still on them. :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jared Q Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I agree, the older 162 is quite different than last years 172. I happen to have an older 162 and it is completely different. The newer models have a rounded tail, have partial sandwich construction rather than full cap, and the thickness tapers in the middle of the board. I'll have them at the Wasatch Trench'n Convention first week of February if anyone wants to demo. :) www.hardbooter.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 It's more stiff than a Slalom one, it's more narrow than a Slalom one, it has the square tail with the maximum of effective edge compared to its length and it cut the ice. How can you call it "freeride board"?! :-\ The SL is actually stiffer, but you are right, the SF is narrower. I call my F2 SL 166 a great all mountain freeride board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jared Q Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Forgot the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Did you know that Frank / virus invented the conshox loooong ago... I saw an old one he made as prototype before the idea was taken by F2. Never tried the concept, wondering if its really usefull.. Seems Madd and Tinkler use the same idea but just glue their to the board is that correct?N. Tinkler has a few different designs he uses. I'm not sure when he made his first one, but if I had to guess it would be ten or more years ago. The first Madd's came out a decade ago also. Although I wouldn't consider the carbon butterfly that they use to be the same idea as the conshox or Tinkler plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Ehm... I know nothing about the 172 last year model but... I've got the 02/03 162 one and I don't know how it can be defined "freeride board". it's more narrow than a Slalom one, it has the square tail with the maximum of effective edge compared to its length and it cut the ice. How can you call it "freeride board"?! I really thing that some people is not riding their board but they are just standing still on them. :-\ The SF is all free ride... all day.... all night.... all year... "it's more narrow than a SL one" cause it is a freeride board.... "it has the square tail" ..some PGS sticks have round tails still doesnt make them free ride boards... "with the maximum of effective edge compared to its length and it cut the ice" You could not use the nose shape and edge profile very well in a race course so if its not a race board it must be....A free ride board.. "I really thing that some people is not riding their board but they are just standing still on them." Or perhaps your ideas and opinons are different then others. Also Phill is right on the Money the Butterfly plate that devoloped into the Tinkler Plate and the Kildy plate and the conshock and the Madd over plate Have all been around for over a decade I would be very surprised if Frank at Virus is to thank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicHard Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 "it's more narrow than a SL one" cause it is a freeride board.... "it has the square tail" ..some PGS sticks have round tails still doesnt make them free ride boards... "with the maximum of effective edge compared to its length and it cut the ice" You could not use the nose shape and edge profile very well in a race course so if its not a race board it must be....A free ride board.. "I really thing that some people is not riding their board but they are just standing still on them." Or perhaps your ideas and opinons are different then others. Or perhaps we have a different ideas on what a "freeride" board is. For me, is something very shifted in the "soft" board area. Maybe you mean a freecarve. Freeride boards to me mean a board can go easily on every terrain, in piste but even i powder, between trees and for some kind of easy tricks. Could you define the silberpfeil "easy" and comfortable to go in powder, with it's narrow waist? Obviously, you can go (and I do), but it's not the use it has made for. A freeride boards is. That's what I mean for freeride. Otherwise, you can freeride with every board, even with "skwal". :-D Anyway, I think the main issue is that (as many say) the Silberpfeil has changed from the one I have, that's very stiff and reactive and nervous and... absolutely not a freeride board. I would mean it's not a freecarve (some definitions of freecarve boards describes freecarve as large in the middle, with tail not flat, softer, etc...). Regards, _RicHard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Or perhaps we have a different ideas on what a "freeride" board is.For me, is something very shifted in the "soft" board area. Maybe you mean a freecarve. Freeride boards to me mean a board can go easily on every terrain, in piste but even i powder, between trees and for some kind of easy tricks. Could you define the silberpfeil "easy" and comfortable to go in powder, with it's narrow waist? Obviously, you can go (and I do), but it's not the use it has made for. A freeride boards is. That's what I mean for freeride. Otherwise, you can freeride with every board, even with "skwal". :-D Anyway, I think the main issue is that (as many say) the Silberpfeil has changed from the one I have, that's very stiff and reactive and nervous and... absolutely not a freeride board. I would mean it's not a freecarve (some definitions of freecarve boards describes freecarve as large in the middle, with tail not flat, softer, etc...). Regards, _RicHard “Or perhaps we have a different ideas on what a "freeride" board is. For me, is something very shifted in the "soft" board area.” Sure sounds like it.. most PGS boards are soft and wide "something very shifted in the "soft" board area." A soft board holds a better line on firm snow then a stiff board. Yet they are not free ride boards? “Maybe you mean a freecarve.” Well truth is F2 even calls the SF a Freecarve board so I would say F2 is correct since they make the product. But lets be real the SF is not a race board by any means. And since it does have an alpine shape it is a hardboot freeride stick. “Freeride boards to me mean a board can go easily on every terrain, in piste but even i powder, between trees and for some kind of easy tricks.” I would then ride soft boots.. ”Could you define the silberpfeil "easy" and comfortable to go in powder, with it's narrow waist? Obviously, you can go (and I do), but it's not the use it has made for. A freeride boards is.” Again soft boots and a Powder stick are the answer, if you are riding hardboots and alpine shapes in pow then that’s your call. Even if you were out free riding on a PGS stick everywhere I would not call it a free ride or free carve stick that’s just how you are using it. The SF is made to free ride everywhere on the hill and make the rider happy doing so. It rides switch well, trees well, on piste well, off piste well, park well, I would say it free rides well. By free ride I of course mean a general shape. Not A PGS board, Not a PSL board, Not a Park board, Not a EC board, Not a Pow board, Just a fun ride everwhere board. “Anyway, I think the main issue is that (as many say) the Silberpfeil has changed from the one I have, that's very stiff and reactive and nervous and... absolutely not a freeride board. I would mean it's not a freecarve (some definitions of freecarve boards describes freecarve as large in the middle, with tail not flat, softer, etc...).” I think the older SF are more fun to ride then the newer boards. They take rider input and reward you for doing things correct what you describe as “very stiff and reactive and nervous” I think felt like a solid platform, with good manners, lots of life and snap that really helped the rider accelerate out of the turn. The new SF feel to soft and sloppy under foot now with a dumbed down approach to make them more friendly to all terrain, and all riders from newbies to advanced. Have you even ridden the new SF? You said "I know nothing about the 172 last year model but.." If you truly know nothing about it how are you so sure its not a free ride stick? Call it what you will Freecarve, Freeride, Freeturn, the SF is not a purpose build board unless that purpose is to go out and free ride on it. :) Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 damn bordy, relax. the guy was just sayin its not a true "all around" board...still a carver. never said it was a race board. in fact, youre both saying the same thing so stfu and drink a pint hey scott...any reason why arcangel cant be obsessed with silberfiel boards if he likes em? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Ehm... I know nothing about the 172 last year model but... I really thing that some people is not riding their board but they are just standing still on them. :-\ Thats why... Damn D-sub there really is nothing as a allround board. At what point do you think its cool to tell some one to STFU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frunobulax Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I'd say if anyone can call the SP a soft board he must have ridden a post 02/03 model. There must have been a change with the stiffness since my 02/03 172 SP was among the stiffest boards I've ever ridden. Why anyone should mount a conshox on it to increase stiffness I don't know. So it sounds paradox to me that after 03 they reduced the stiffness and at the same time said no more conshox needed. It's a fine board though (on hard surface) but I don't think F2's got a clue which way to go with the SP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Day Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 JD, I just picked up a 172. It's at PTC getting the magic touch. You are welcome to try it any time. ...if my leg/knee every gets better before the end of the season, I may have to take you up on that offer! I've always liked the way the Silberpfeils looked and the specs sound good to me! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Thats why...Damn D-sub there really is nothing as a allround board. At what point do you think its cool to tell some one to STFU? its always cool when said humorously. my post didnt sound humorous although I meant it that way. point was you were kinda harpin on the wrong point from the wrong guy. someone called the SF a "freeride" board, and Richard pointed out heck no..."freecarve maybe"...and you were sayin the same thing, but it seemed sarcastic and directed at the wrong fella. damn. now I owe yet another carver a pint. actually Im even more confused now...it was you, Bordy, who said "freeride"...and wouldnt the SF be about as far from that as you can get? like Richard, when I think of a Freeride board, I think all around. then when he clarified, you said "theres no such thing as an all around board"... OK...Im out of this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SITO Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Hi guys, First sorry for english , I would like to explain me better but..., Bordy; speaking about the concept of freeride, race, twin.tipe... the silberfield, would be, at least for me, a board built for make turn ;and make turn is freecarve, carving,racing ......but not it's a freeride concept-board. It,s a board very narrow and with a set-up, not properly for ride in pow, trees, snowparks, jump.... his set-up and shape not is properly for this finallity. Obviously, if everybody ride fine , you 'll go in pow, jump...but not only with a silberfeil, also with another board like race, slalom, or freecarve. For example speaking about the different only in 3cm size board; 3cm increase in length doesn’t provide much more float. A 3cm increase in width will up the float quite a bit but slows the board edge to edge.You can see the importance of 3cm riding on powder or making turns and changing edges. In fact I ride on swith, jump 360- 180 front and back , and riding in about 1m powder snow with my slalom board stick,without problems for me; but this not mean that my slalom board be or have a freeride or freestyle shape for riding on this styles.I can tell you, and of course you just know that is more easy ride on swith or jumping 360- 180 on a twin -tip board than on a slalom board, which is built for this porpouse. In my opinion freeride, twin.tip, boards or whatever , have an specific shape for working well on his program or riding with them most comfy and sure than with the another different program-board-tool. So each board have a different shape for different riding styles, and nowadays,an alpine shape not is as property to ride on freeride as an specific freeride board. Speaking in windsurf words, you can sail on chopi or on wave with an slalom board, why not?both are float, and you can sail a race slalom down-wind with an freestyle board, Why not? but their shapes are different , and with all of them you will sail for sure. And we can talk the same with f1 and rallye cars, or motocross and moto gp...... I'm a hardboots lover, and do jump, 360, 180, swith...but I recognice that this boards not work well in this situacions. For me the shape of the snowboard, windsurfboard, or whatever mark the nature of the board. Sito Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicHard Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 “Or perhaps we have a different ideas on what a "freeride" board is.For me, is something very shifted in the "soft" board area.” Sure sounds like it.. most PGS boards are soft and wide "something very shifted in the "soft" board area." A soft board holds a better line on firm snow then a stiff board. Yet they are not free ride boards? I don't think so. But, as I mentioned, the freeride definition is given to other kind of boards: if a soft and wide (but what do you mean for wide?!) PGS board is labeled as "PGS board", it's not a freeride, evem if you can go in the pipe with it too! ;-) Well truth is F2 even calls the SF a Freecarve board so I would say F2 is correct since they make the product. But lets be real the SF is not a race board by any means. And since it does have an alpine shape it is a hardboot freeride stick. For me, even the "freecarve" label is wrong, with silberpfeil. Or, better: if for "freecarve" you mean an alpine board that's not especially designed for sl or gs, then it's a freecarve. But if you stick to the definition that has been used for a long time for a freecarve board, the silberpfeil is not just a freecarve (too narrow, too stiff, tail too flat, etc...). “Freeride boards to me mean a board can go easily on every terrain, in piste but even i powder, between trees and for some kind of easy tricks.” I would then ride soft boots.. In fact, the freeride boards are (mainly?) used with soft boots. Maybe in some catalogue someone defines as "freeride board" a board with hard bindings, but I didn't see it. You should admit that in the 99% of the cases, the word freeride is used aside a soft-bindings board. ”Could you define the silberpfeil "easy" and comfortable to go in powder, with it's narrow waist? Obviously, you can go (and I do), but it's not the use it has made for. A freeride boards is.” Again soft boots and a Powder stick are the answer, if you are riding hardboots and alpine shapes in pow then that’s your call. Even if you were out free riding on a PGS stick everywhere I would not call it a free ride or free carve stick that’s just how you are using it. Then...how is it possibile to call the Silberpfeil "freeride boards"? :-O The SF is made to free ride everywhere on the hill and make the rider happy doing so. It rides switch well, trees well, on piste well, off piste well, park well, I would say it free rides well. The silberpfeil (my 2002 one) has a very flat tail that sometimes fold in the snow. I wouldn't say "it rides switch well". Trees?! :-O Off piste?! :-O PARK?!?!?!? No: definitively, it doesn't freerides well. By free ride I of course mean a general shape. Ok, that's the issue. That's just your meaning. But the "freeride" term is used almost universally with another meaning. ;-) Not A PGS board, Not a PSL board, Not a Park board, Not a EC board, Not a Pow board, Just a fun ride everwhere board. It's a freecarve. It has a category that it belongs to. You said "I know nothing about the 172 last year model but.." If you truly know nothing about it how are you so sure its not a free ride stick? As first, I was talking about the model I have. As second, the shape and measures tell me that it's not a freeride stick: to be defined a freeride, a board has to have some features and shape. But you explained few rows above that your definition of "freeride" is personally and different from the known ones. Just that, was the issue, as I wrote in my previous message ("Or perhaps we have a different ideas on what a "freeride" board is"). ;-) P.S.: I was on the silberpfeil 162 in SL races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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