ajcannon Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 I have been hard-boot riding for a number of years now, although I moved to Iowa a few years back and only get out to CO once or twice a year. I bought a Burton Coil 72 a couple years ago. I like it fine, but I have never been able to pull the full-blown euro-carve lay-out turns like some folks. I wonder if it is me or if I am limited by this deck. The specs on the deck are: overall length: 172.5 cm running length: 146 cm waist width: 21.5 cm sidecut depth: 2.6 cm sidecut radius: 10.26 m I suspect this deck may be a combination free-ride/carver so maybe it isn't a full-blown carving board?? I've been reading reviews on this site and it seems like the Donek boards are great. Would I come closer to the euro-carve thing on a new deck like that? I'd like to pull some of those fully-laid-out carves before I die and I am not getting any younger (32 now). From reading stuff on this site it seems my set-up is out of whack, so I'm sure I can improve somewhat by getting that right (my stance is centered a full 2" behind the center, and my stance width is only 16 1/2"). Until I found this site I had virtually zero information about how to set up a board (thanks). Is it just that I'm not riding the "sweet-spot" or is it that this board just isn't made for "serious" carving? Any advice would be appreciated - I want to get the most out of my once -per-year trip coming up in March (to Steamboat). Should I pick up a new deck before I go? or just set mine up differently. Thanks in advance for any advice you may have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 I had a 165 Coil and it was a fun board, but it was way too soft to do that unless you are very light, around 110 pounds. You might pass along some info like your weight and boot size, you'll get some good replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajcannon Posted January 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 I was afraid that might be the problem. I've managed to carve decent turns on it, but I have to basically ride the tail (put all my weight on the tail - but then I can only do large-radius turns. I think the nose is just too floppy probably? What are you riding now and was it night-and-day when you switched away from the Coil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 No info yet on your height etc. but a 13m to 14m sidecut was crucial for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor VonRippington Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 I had a buddy who rode a coil for a while and could carve his nose into the snow on it. He is a very light weight rider, but could carve on a closet door if there were bindings on it. You mentioned Donek... if all you want to do is carve, pick up a Donek Free Carve. You wouldn't regret it. If you are looking for something that carves great and does other stuff too, grab a Donek Axis. I got an Axis early this season and love it. It's a 172 and does anything my 210 pounds asks of it... including full on GS carves with both hands in the snow. I could have gone much longer, but wanted something for the bumps and trees as well. When you're in Steamboat, carve a couple on Sunshine lift line for me. Don't forget about the tree ridding there... legendary. (I lived there for 12 yrs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajcannon Posted January 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Thanks for the reply. My weight is 200lbs, I'm 6'-2" tall, shoe-size is 12. I've got burton boots and bindings. When I bought the Coil, I wanted a carving board, but I obviously had no idea what I was doing. I've had a lot of fun on it, but maybe it is time to pick up a real carving board. Based on the reviews on this site the Donek boards looked pretty good, but what size should I go for? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor VonRippington Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Call Donek... they will help you figure out exactly what you need. 877-53DONEK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajcannon Posted January 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 thanks for the reply...VERY helpful. The Sunshine liftline is the best...last time I was riding there a woman crashed into me from above while I was carving a big long turn. She yelled at me, then her private ski instructor made a rude remark...funny... love that trail though... thankis again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronG Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 AJ, I too have a Burton Coil 172, well my brother has it now, I now ride a Prior 4X4 in a 179. I used that Coil for many years and found that it always rode very well. I used to lay out some eurocarves on it so it does have the edge hold that you require. It might be technique that is not allowing you to EC. BTW, I am 6'2" and 200 lbs, when I was riding the Coil I was a bit lighter, 190?? My boots are 27.5 so I was able to ride less angles than what you require, not sure if this is causing your problem or not. Don't give up on the Coil yet, that board has plety of potential Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor VonRippington Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Not to beat a dead horse here, but I just noticed your stats. A 16.5 stance width seems extremely narrow for you. I'm 5'11 and ride with a 19.5 You might try moving your whole stance forward some too. It's recomended for a carving set up and may allow you to get more out of that coil than you have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajcannon Posted January 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 I am sure that technique and set-up are both issues. I've been reading the technique posts on this site and that will help. Regarding set-up: Honestly a couple years ago (when I bought the coil), I searched the internet for help on how to set-up the deck and found nothing. After finding this site and reading through a lot of old posts, I now know that my stance is way too narrow and way too far back. Thats great info that will undoubtedly help me out so I am stoked about that... Just wondering now if I want to drop $600 on a new deck or ride the Coil again with the new setup. I only get out there once a year and I want to make it count :) Thanks all for your comments. I've learned more from this site about technique, setup, etc thatn fromany other source. Recently I picked up the Snowboarding 2006 Buyers Guide only to find that they don't have a single carving board in the whole mag. Are there other good places to learn about set-ups, technique, etc, or is this site the only source out there? Thanks again. -AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor VonRippington Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 If you haven't already been there, click "Links" on the home page of this site. Keep scrolling down once you're there... lots of great sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 I was afraid that might be the problem. I've managed to carve decent turns on it, but I have to basically ride the tail (put all my weight on the tail - but then I can only do large-radius turns. I think the nose is just too floppy probably? What are you riding now and was it night-and-day when you switched away from the Coil? I weigh 180. I moved from the Coil to a Donek Freecarve 163, which was a lot stiffer and I didn't like it very much. I have since ridden a 171 freecarve which I liked much better, it seemed easier to ride (stable) and I had much better edge hold with it (more edge available). Now I am on boards in the 175 +/- range and they seem very stable and have great edge hold, and while they are not as easily maneuvered as shorter boards, they are adequate. Going longer made a huge difference in my riding because of the added stability and edge hold. That is just my experience, it would be best to talk to Sean (if you go with Donek). Did you read the articles on this site? I think there is one about selecting different types of boards. I would be amazed if I ever saw anyone carving the Coil very hard, it didn't take much to bend mine into a very small radius shape, too small for a realistic turn radius. I think that when you get a board on its edge approaching 90 degrees, the turn radius is influenced more by board stiffness than sidecut radius, unless you are on very hard snow. Others may disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajcannon Posted January 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 I would be amazed if I ever saw anyone carving the Coil very hard, it didn't take much to bend mine into a very small radius shape, too small for a realistic turn radius. I think that when you get a board on its edge approaching 90 degrees, the turn radius is influenced more by board stiffness than sidecut radius, unless you are on very hard snow. Others may disagree. My experience seems to go along with your assessment: Currently I have my bindings way back on the board...I think over the years I found that putting any weight at all on the nose in the turns was asking for trouble....then I think I began slowly moving my bindings back...because ashort tail is stiff and at least stable. I used to just lay on the tail hard in the turns. It would keep an edge just fine and I could make some nice looking turns, but this just isn't natural. I may give the Donek guy a call. I'll keep the coil around for sure - its anice board - but I think it is somewhat limited. Technique-wise I think I'll be just fine if I can get the right board and the right set-up. Thanks for your comments. I saw in your profile you had an Alp 7.1. I had one of those before the Coil and I couldn't quite get that one to do it either. Maybe I am the problem - who knows. Thanks again. -AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jschal01 Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 IMO center and broaden, considerably, your stance on the same board. Blow the $600 on a clinic or camp or two, this year or next. Technique-wise virtually everyone has lots of room for improvement. Steamboat might even be a good place for a lesson to start. And get out as often as possible at (relatively) local areas the rest of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Someone else had an alp, I've never ridden one. You'll like that Coil on days with softer snow, even after you've moved on to more "serious" carving boards. I think it's important to focus on getting good technique down before trying to "get low", because getting low (the right way) is good technique taken to the extreme. My riding has suffered because I haven't worked on the basics as much as I should, so even though I sometimes get lower in my turns than many of my friends, they are mostly better overall riders because they have been working on good technique, not just laying down and whipping around a turn. I love doing that, it's really fun, but it doesn't make me a better rider, and the way I do it looks awkward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 The Coil is very similar in shape, sidecut, width etc to the various 21.5 cm waisted all-mountain boards offered by Prior, Donek and Coiler. It's softer than them but still not a complete noodle. If you're still figuring stance and stuff out, I think that board will work OK for you. Try around a 20" stance centred on the inserts ie where Burton thought you should be. Make sure you're measuring the stance width correctly too, that would be centre to centre not the distance between the inside inserts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajcannon Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Thanks to all for your coments- they were all very helpful. I've been comparing the geometry of my Coil 72 to some of the recommended boards in the reviews section. The most obvious thing that stands out is that my board has a small radius (10.26m) compared to most of the recommended carvers (mostly in the 13's although a few in the 12's and 11's). The small radius on the coil combined with the relatively soft deck make for a board that is a good all-arounder - but maybe npt ideal for carving at high speeds. Over the years I made up for the soft deck by riding the tail hard at high speeds (so the nose wouldn't over flex). Jim said that going to a 13-14m radius made a huge difference for him. I am suspecting I may find the same thing. I'll keep the coil for overly-crowded slopes or for cruizing around, but I am going for a GS-like board with 13 to 14m radius to maybe take me to the next level. I'll probably look for a longer deck (like 180 to 185). You only like once right? The coiler site says they are booked for the year. I'll probably call Donek tomorrow and see if they can get something made this year yet. I'm stoked about this because I feel like I am finally learning what it takes to do the full blown carving I've been kindof moving towards over the years. Thanks for everyones help. Any last words of wisdom forme? If not I let this thread die. Thanks to all. -AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor VonRippington Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 If you want, shoot me an email a week or two before you show up in Steamboat. I may be able to come over and ride with you for a day. I live about an hour away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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