For the hardboot patrollers:

[Stainless]

Jim Craig has written a really good article in this Patrol Magazine issue, but he's completely unaware of us hardbooters. I feel we should respond - gently though.

I'd contest his 'longer leash is better' idea. I'm seriously considering putting 4" leashes on my front AND rear bindings given recent feedback on Intec's.

I think the gnarly sharp metal bits on my Cateks make a snowspike redundant.

Alpine boots dig into snowpack just fine.

I have imagined scenarios where my snowboard could be really useful as a backboard/litter/firm surface for CPR - that could be mentioned.

I'm happy to write the letter - are there other NSP / Pro's in this forum with input?

Any of you have photos of yourselves carving in patrol colours?

[Guest]

I haven't used a leash in 2 years.

[Fleaman]

Hey Stainless. I am not familiar with the article you are referring to. I am a Canadian Patroller. But I kinda catch what you are talking about. When I patrolled in Ontario we had to have our board attatched to something if it wasnt on our feet. We could use a stationary tobogan, tree, ice screw or even a bystander holding it. They didnt think leaving it upside down on the snow safe. Most of us who snowboarded soft and hard went to the long leashes that atatch above your calf. Out here in BC, they dont have too much regulations on our boards, other than make sure it is secure which in my interpretation is laying on its bindings. The area I patrol at also is not requiring leashes on soft binding boards but they demand leashes on plates. weird eh?

Also when the terrain is really steep and cruddy or powder, most patrollers here will call for a toboggan and a snowboarder to pilot it down to the infirmary. They are more than happy to admit it is easier on a board in most situations other than a long flat area.

If you have a link to the article if it is online, I would like to read it.

And I am pretty sure Hopscotch is a patroller too.

I used to have a few pics of me riding in colours but My hard drive conked out and I lost them.

[Stainless]

Sorry, no online link. And I'd forgotten you're north of the border - excuse me.

The article could be titled 'snowboard tobogganging for dummies' (i.e. for skiing patrollers), but he doesn't go beyond K2 clickers, Switch or Flow bindings. His own hill in Juenau requires step-in bindings to be allowed to patrol.

I wish I could comment if controlling a loaded sled is easier in hardboots than softies. I'm guessing it is.

I didn't wear a leash all last season either - bad example.

[tufty]

Wow. You have patrollers who work on boards? I can't speak for other resorts here, but certainly where I work (Praz sur Arly) the patrollers all have to work on skis. I guess maybe some of the bigger resorts over here might have board patrollers, though. There are a couple of boarders among our patrollers and one of them is a complete psycho hardbooter (there are 3 hardbooters who work on the resort : myself, Francois, and one of the guys who runs an altitude restaurant). I'll see if I can get some photos of us all 'suited and booted' when we've opened.

Simon

[kjl]

From Scott F's Carving Almanac:

[Fleaman]

His own hill in Juenau requires step-in bindings to be allowed to patrol.

Does he give any reasoning on that?

I Have a set of Catek step ins now, after using the fast snowpros last year, the convenience is really apreciated.

We actually have 3 people on the patrol that ride exclusively on plates. we had 5 a few years ago. Most of them ride with AT boots so they can do some touring also without owning 2 pairs of boots.

Other than flat areas on the hill there is nothing a boarder can do less than a skier. Also if you judge the flats, you can 90 percent of the time glide through them with some route planning and anticipation.

Here in Canada, the Central Zone allows snowbladers to run toboggans too.

[Stainless]

".. the main reason for this is that they allow the rider to keep at least one hand free while attaching the bindings..."

- kept free I suppose, to scratch my bum or make gestures to heckling collegues.

Email me an address Fleaman, and I'll send you a copy of the magazine. It's quite a slick little rag.

I just spent 2 days working in Calgary - it should make anyone cry having to fly over those mountains but not having the time to ride 'em.

[philw]

You have patrollers who work on boards? I can't speak for other resorts here, but certainly where I work (Praz sur Arly) the patrollers all have to work on skis.

Ah, you work at my secret spot... jolly good.

At Mike Wiegele's they used to allow guides to work on boards, but now the public helicopters are ski guides only, which caused a few people to have to learn to ski. You can still have a guide on a board, but you have to hire your own heli to do that. Basically the guides had a vote on it; I think it's probably easier to hike up and look for stuff on skis, or something like that.

[Fleaman]

At Mike Wiegele's they used to allow guides to work on boards, but now the public helicopters are ski guides only

It is the same at the snow cat operation in Revelstoke (Powder springs?)

they allow visiting patrollers from different areas to work on the Cats, but they need to be skiers unless they are from the Monashee Zone.

Kinda sucks for me. :(

[Neil Gendzwill]

I wouldn't want to guide on a board. Just not nearly verstile enough. I'm surprised those guys don't all just run AT rigs.

[Guest Hopscotch]

Here in Canada, the Central Zone allows snowbladers to run toboggans too.

Here in PA, that would be unheard of. I've never seen a patroler on snowblades, on or off duty.

There was one snowboarder patroler last year that used strap bindings... it was halrious watching her strap in with a sled waiting behind her in an emercency. I love my flows. There's no need to stop, just kick your foot in and keep going. With my alpine board however, i will only be auxilary because i have Td1 standards. I have problems with cliping in sometimes.

now i just got to find the money for the Retro kit for them.. (i already have the intec's on my boots)

I can't find a copy of that article online... but i have a copy up at the mountain, i can scan it for ya'll tomarrow night.

Here's some classic pictures i found on David Schutz's website(http://www.monmouth.com/~dschutz/)

http://www.monmouth.com/~dschutz/pictures.htm

[ike]

The first harbooter I ever saw was a ski patroller. Before that I had never seen nor heard of it. He looked so cool...

[tufty]

Ah, you work at my secret spot... jolly good.

You come to Praz? I drive the Telesiege de la Varoche (the big long slow bastarding thing that goes up from the car park and they still haven't replaced yet), if you're over this winter drop in to the cabin for a coffee (or perhaps if you arrive at the right time, something more), ask for Simon or "L'Anglais" and we can arrange to go for a play. Actually, that goes for anyone here that's dropping through Praz, freeriders skiers or hardbooters, I don't care. Always up for a play.

Simon

[Fleaman]

Today I was teaching our new patrol rookies some toboggan handling in Powder/Crud conditions. It was clear when the snowboarders had the toboggan, they just walked all over it, the skiers were flipping snow all over the place trying to clear a route for their skinny sticks.

Being rookies though they kept the speeds down and couldnt keep the toboggan going across the flat. But with more practice I think they can do it. I have done it a few times now with no problem, but having a board in tip top shape and a fresh wax sure does wonders to your glide.

I love passing skiers polling across a flat section as I blow by them in a tuck on my board. :D

[Guest]

Yeah, I blow by all my friends on almost all cat tracks. I hate it when people are blocking the way though and you have to slow down for them and it forces you to stop. I get so pissed when that happens.

[tufty]

Yeah, I blow by all my friends on almost all cat tracks. I hate it when people are blocking the way though and you have to slow down for them and it forces you to stop. I get so pissed when that happens.

Gah. Happened to me last year. Coming up on the lift, see my colleague's daughter digging around in a metre of fresh snow searching for a ski, so head down to give her a hand. She's on the completely ungroomed black, no problem as I'm on my (unwaxed, yeah, I know...) freeride board. Find ski, she heads off, I clip back in and go mess about in the pow for a bit. This particular black drops onto a very flat, very long, and very narrow, blue run that can only be done in a tuck on a board unless you particularly enjoy skating. So for the last 50 yards or so of the black, I go into tuck mode, and blast down the blue. No problem, and kind of good practice. Of course, true to form, about 100 yards from the end of the flat section, there's a family of L-plated skiers skating along at 0 mph and using 120% of the width of the piste. As it's considered bad form to knock kids over when you're wearing a resort jacket, I slow down and finally, due to unwaxedness of board combined with freshness of snow and the fact I'm currently heading mildly uphill, grind to a halt. Rather than unclipping, I bounce along for a while, muttering imprecations about #)$%&)!@ tourists. Until the local ski club come blazing past, and a 7-year old gives me a tow. The _shame_ of it... the _SHAME_...

Simon

I've got lots of shame stories :)

[Guest hard patroller]

Hola Stainless et al -

I am new patroller in Seattle and am using hard boots (well, AT boots actually) and some old Burton race plates on an all mountain board. I'm hoping to move to a more carving oriented board, but I seem to spend a fair amount of time riding fakie while in the handles - especially in tight, steep terrain.

Are you able to drive sleds in bumpy steeps with your carving board?

Do you carve with the sled or tailrope when it is steep or do you do lots of falling leaf?

So far, I've had to back off my angles to gain control for tobogganing and I'm interested in learning more technique for patrolling on the hard.

thanks tons.

[Guest hard patroller]

One other item on hard booted patrollers:

Bob Barci is fellow hard-booting patroller and the Pacific North West's snowboard advisor. He's been teaching and advising tadpole boarding patrollers for years in Seattle. He is very reverent about both the sport and patrolling.

Bob is one of snowboarding's pioneers and is credited with starting the annual Banked Slalon race at Mt Baker:

http://www.transworldsnowboarding.com/snow/snowboard_life/article/0,13009,244763,00.html

He's also featured prominently in the new movie Platinum: The Legendary Banked Slalom, 20 Years and Beyond. (www.platinumthemovie.com)

[Stainless]

I had backed off a lot on my angles as well, and bought a new Donek Incline expressly for patrol days - didn't enjoy it. Bought a used Prior 4x4 and I am much happier with a smaller waisted board. And because we need to ride fakie, a square-tailed deck is just another problem.

I find in the steeps that I rotate a lot in the handles so that I've generally only one hand ever on a handgrip with the other on the cross-member. Lots of falling leaf so far (it's hard to get into trouble with it).

I'm looking forward to a sled clinic at Squaw in 3 weeks, so I'm expecting things will evolve.

Fleaman is the one to ask.

[Fleaman]

Just wondering why you guys have to ride fakie or switch in the handles?

I dont have a problem running the box with a carving board and steep angles. I ride 60, 57.Yes you can carve in the handles but it is best to be tried empty and on a training run. You would never do it on your way to an accident or with a loaded toboggan.

Our positions in the handles are straight running, Falling leaf or pendulum and sideslip. There is no short radius or snowplow obviously although you could do some short radius turns as long as you keep the toboggan path straight.

I find on anything but a steep run, straight running with the chain working keeps me at a good speed. On anything dicey I like to ride falling leaf, you would be amazed how fast you can go while swinging your board in the handles.

The same on drag rope, just sideslip or falling leaf and straight running.

I did use my coiler PR 188 once to take someone down and biffed it bad, I went to pivot my board from toeside sideslip to heelside and it went into a carve by accident and I went down. It sucked big time. It was under the chair lift too. :(

I did find that I was having a hard time riding the board because of the canting I had. Once I dialed it in , I could push the board around much better. Other than that, I always rode a square tail board untill last year when I got my coiler AM But to tell you the truth, I never ride backwards with a toboggan so having a turned up tail does nothing for me.