my first REAL longboarding experience

[FTA2R]

hey Guys,

So I've ridden my first longboard (Bozi Mad Bomber) about 3 times now since I've had it, the last time being in the 6 story Reston Town Center Parking Garages (I live right behind RTC) and I was starting to feel confident (carving it and foot braking). Oh how I had no idea at the time that I still could barely ride the thing.

I met up with some of the guys from the local skate shop for a night session through some Ashburn neighboorhoods (even though all the houses pretty much had lights, it was still very dark) We skated in front of a pickup truck, which made sure no cars ran us over and lighted the way somewhat. Then we all hopped in the bed of the truck for the ride up. This was the "crusing" hill for them, but felt like a downhill hill for me.

So I am SOOOOOO glad I had protection on. First, I was going WAY faster than I was comfortable with (a few times), so I got low and then I started getting crazy speed wobbles even while crouched low. I thought for sure I was going to be "ejected" off the board and would have awful road rash all over my face. Somehow, I managed to stabilize myself before I hit the curb and rode it out. I tightened the trucks after that run, though. Then, on another run, I was hand braking / sliding for probably 10 seconds straight (I had wrist guards meant for inline skating, not skating) on, and the things were burning hot, I thought they had melted. Nevertheless, I firmly believe those truly saved me tonight. I ripped right through my jeans at the kneecap, thankfully I had kneepads on. I was totally freaking out going straight downhill though- too scared to try anything but stay on the board, lol. Toward the end, I was getting the powerslide though. A number of times I ran off the board at quite fast speeds, which can't be good for your knees and isn't what I want to be doing.

So then the guys I was with went to a much steeper hill and were carving then powersliding some more carving, powerslide. It was a very cool hill, supposedly the highest point in Loudoun county, we could see the lights from Reston (or perhaps Tysons Corner). Anyway, I got some video of these guys doing the 2nd hill. One of the guys had blue lights under his board, which was cool looking and had made it easier to film him.

So I got way more than I bargained for tonight. I'll be out there again though- with some real sliding gloves.

---

Barry

ps I'll try to post the video somewhere or email it to someone who can post (depending on how much I can compress it)

[lonerider]

Impressive. I wish I were so bold! :)

I rode my longboard for a couple of months before riding with the guys from the local skate shop (precisely because I was afraid that would happen to me). Of course, by the time I did ride with them, I discovered I had already surpassed some of the regulars at the hill in terms of my ability to carve or sliding the board (I'm hopelessly sucky at ollie/kickflipping the board and psychologically I don't think I will ever be able to bomb more than 25 mph down a hill on a longboard skateboard). You will find that your snowboarding skills will carry over almost completely.

To avoid speed wobbles, you actually need to stand "up", keep your weight forward, and *relax* - fighting the wobbles only makes it worse.

Slide gloves are awesome - definitely get a pair.

[SWriverstone]

Barry, you're KWAZY!!! :) Seriously, for someone who was reluctant to skateboard 'cause of the "asphalt risks," you seem to be diving right into it! <grin>

You've GOT to check out the Dirtsurfer! Holly's recovering well, and we should definitely get together in the next couple weeks so you can try the Dirtsurfer. I genuinely believe that---not coming from a skateboarding background---you'll ride the Dirtsurfer and say "Whoa! Why does anyone ride a skateboard?" :D

Scott

[FTA2R]

yeah,

i guess now i'm a hypocrite lol. well, i didn't intentionally go so fast and didn't know i would be going so fast.

good to hear Holly is doing well. hopefully we'll see each other soon, love to try the DS.

===

Barry

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by SWriverstone

"Whoa! Why does anyone ride a skateboard?"

'cuz all the alternative designs suck in a pool?

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill

'cuz all the alternative designs suck in a pool?

Negative comments by freestyle snowboarders about alpine snowboards...

"You can't possible jump that thing"

"That must suck in the park/pipe"

"What's wrong with a freestyle deck?"

"That stance looks weird, how can you ride with such a narrow stance?"

"That think looks big and UGLY"

Those are actually paraphrased comments are about the Dirtsurfer by skateboarders (some of the comments were made in silverfishlongboarding.com and not here). Personally, I'm not threatened or defensive about the fact that Dirtsurfer is more stable, has more edge hold, stop quicker, is able to ride over rougher terrain and overally lines up with an alpine snowboard the best out of all wheeled-board devices to date in terms of the speed, size, and angle which one can carves turns on it. Why must everything be about quantitative superlatives? Must it always be about who can carve the hardest/lowest/fastest? I think Scott said it best

I definitely don't think there is anything wrong with skateboards. I still like riding my Insect Dragonfly. And you're right---there is a HUGE tradition and history behind skateboarding, which is great.

But...I think it's possible that the same tradition & history behind skating might make skaters a bit more resistant to accepting change, and/or acknowledging that skateboards have limitations, and aren't truly "do everything" rides.

Anyways, back to talking about the "fun" of summer board sports - I just setup my second skateboard (Insect Sidewinder Slalom/Pump board) with RTX/RTS Trackers and it's a blast to pump around (doesn't feel at all like a snowboard, but still a lot of fun). If you are ever in need of skateboard/longboard equipment, I highly recommend PurpleSkunk (www.purpleskunk.com) especially if you are in the SF Bay Area and can visit their brick and mortar location. On Saturday, I stayed there for a whole afternoon demoing 4 types of wheels, and 5 pairs of trucks (swapping them in several combinations onto my two boards)... while I liked the feel of the Seismics, I felt that I should start out with the Trackers as they cost half as much as the Seismics and still were a lot of fun to ride. However I definitely think my next purchase (probably in a year) will be some Seismics trucks as they were a lot of fun to ride as well (some many options, so little time ;) ) I switched my Grippins to the Sidewinder and put 84a Strikers on my Loaded Vanguard, the Strikers are sweet, fast and have plenty of grip... but are much more smoother sliding/drifting through a corner at speed because of the narrower contact patch and rounded edges.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by lonerider

Negative comments by freestyle snowboarders about alpine snowboards...

There's a difference between saying that you like the dirtsurfer and asking why anyone would want to ride a conventional skateboard. Clearly there are some things it can't do, and that's why you'd want a regular board. Which is why I answered the question.

Likewise I would never ask why someone wants to ride a twin-tip snowboard, especially if pipe and park is their thing. I might ask why they ride that if they never go near the park though.

Whoops, didn't notice the title - last time I was in a pool was last Sunday morning. It's designed for skateboarding, but it's a pool nonetheless with coping, a shallow and deep end, and nice carvable corners.

[SWriverstone]

Okay, okay. :) I was the source of the "Why would anyone want to ride a skateboard?" comment, and I retract it---partially. <grin>

I was really referring more to the safety factor of reliable braking and stopping. In that single aspect, I'll say the Dirtsurfer is superior to skateboards any day!

As I've said in the past, if you look at it objectively (as if you were a Martian arriving for the first time on Earth), the notion of having to drag your hands on the pavement to slow down on a skateboard is pretty Neanderthal. <smile> Sure, it's a skill, but I still think it's sort of a desperate move to make up for skateboarding's biggest shortcoming (the lack of brakes).

As I've mentioned before, if foot-and-hand dragging were a viable method of braking, then everyone would do it on bicycles too! (Think Fred Flintstone.)

Seriously though, no bashing of skating intended. :)

Scott

[Neil Gendzwill]

Criticising skateboards for not having brakes is a little like criticising unicycles for being unstable. They are what they are, and you just deal with it, or play with a different toy. Turns out people have gotten pretty creative dealing with the "limitations" of skateboards. There's nothing sticking your feet to the board either, and that somehow doesn't seem to be a problem.

[philistine]

Yeah, I've only been skateboarding for about 6 months. It only took me a couple weeks to learn how to stop effectively. I can go from 20-30 mph and stop within 20-30 feet, somtimes shorter if I really have too.

It's not dragging your hand on the ground that makes you stop, it's breaking your wheels into a slide and changing traction to friction. You only put your hand on the ground to unweight the board.

And look at how cool Cliff Coleman makes it look!

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill

There's a difference between saying that you like the dirtsurfer and asking why anyone would want to ride a conventional skateboard. Clearly there are some things it can't do, and that's why you'd want a regular board. Which is why I answered the question.

I took it to be in context of a summer snowboard-like activity that non-skateboarders can get into without having to learn a lot of extra skills. Of course I've been reading/posting the other thread so I took it in that context (especially since from the other thread is clear that Scott also enjoys skateboarding), maybe people who haven't read the other longboarding thread might have drawn the wrong conclusions from his post. I can understand why if taken out of context you would find this post to be perturbing... but I felt that your post wasn't a very good reply because it was also incorrect. In actuality some of these alternative designs can ride a pool quite well (maybe not your cup of tea, but they definitely don't "suck in a pool").

I've included links to the videos below. I take it that you didn't see these videos and were just speculating... so if you didn't actually know how "alternative designs" ride in a pool... why did you make that claim? It is this type of defensive comments that I dislike... I don't feel insecure about the fact that the Dirtsurfer would own me on a downill carving contest... I ride my skateboard for fun, not to be the *coolest* person, riding the gnarliest/steepest/fastest road/slope/hill/wave... the Dirtsurfer is a lot of fun too... (although definitely NOT a complete replacement for a skateboard).

Here is a Carvestik video with Brian Gerlach carving it up in a bowl. There used to be a much longer version of this (him carving/pumping the bowl for like 3 mins without stopping once to kick) - Carvestik Video Page - Click on the Carvestik video (third one). I know of ne person who gets air out of the bowl on a Carvestik. Go here to see some Tierney board riding in a bowl Click on the first movie on the second row at the bottom of the page to see a - Tierney board riding in the bowl. I couldn't find any videos/pics of a Dirtsurfer however hypothetically they could be alright in a pool/ I've seen plenty of BMXs take skateboard bowls will no problem. So I don't see an obvious reason why a Dirtsurfer would suck in a pool (well so long as you don't try to varial one). Why would you think it would suck?

Likewise I would never ask why someone wants to ride a twin-tip snowboard, especially if pipe and park is their thing. I might ask why they ride that if they never go near the park though.

You might not, but I think a LOT of people on BOL here would and have said something to that effect (my post was more general and not specific to any one person or post). Not only are there negative remarks about riding freestyle boards (even in the park/pipe) but also about freeride boards in general there have been many post asking exactly "why does anyone ride a freeride board?" or any non-alpine/BX board with an upturned tail and that that *everyone* not in the park/pipe should be on freecarve boards. Again I'm talking about posts from several people - not just one.

Whoops, didn't notice the title - last time I was in a pool was last Sunday morning. It's designed for skateboarding, but it's a pool nonetheless with coping, a shallow and deep end, and nice carvable corners.

I said "actual drained pool", because I wanted to point out that most skateboarders don't skate in real pools either, and but made-for-skateboarding bowls where BMX riders (and possibly Dirtsurfers) also can ride. I want to avoid people trying somehow compare the Dirtsurfer with the "history" of skateboarding with the recent Dogtown craze. Since the post made it sound like you were attaching the 1970's pool-riding craze by teenage skateboards to a 2005 summer-fix-search by middle-age hardbooters :) (I'm joking - if the smiley face didn't make it clear)

[lonerider]

Originally posted by philistine

Yeah, I've only been skateboarding for about 6 months. It only took me a couple weeks to learn how to stop effectively. I can go from 20-30 mph and stop within 20-30 feet, somtimes shorter if I really have too.

It's not dragging your hand on the ground that makes you stop, it's breaking your wheels into a slide and changing traction to friction. You only put your hand on the ground to unweight the board.

And look at how cool Cliff Coleman makes it look!

I've only been skateboarding for about 6 months actual time myself (didn't touch my skateboard during the winter) - but I too have learned how slide to a stop (I've even practiced footbreaking)... but I think Scott's point is that you need to be skilled, talent, and agile to do either sliding or footbraking... where as virtually *anyone* can use the brake on a Dirtsurfer and figure out how to use it to slow down from 30 mph on the *first* day of riding it. No *one* could footbrake or slide to stop from 30 mph on the *first* day of riding a skateboard. Most people couldn't do it in the first month of riding a skateboard. When you are talking about riding for the masses... you can't except everyone to be "hardcore" and/or "extreme."

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by lonerider

Here is a Carvestik video with Brian Gerlach carving it up in a bowl.

That's the version with the skateboard wheels, so functionally it's a skateboard with different trucks as far as I'm concerned. You could ride a dropped-deck landyachtz with RIIs to much the same effect. I'd still want a kicktail. And there ain't no way he'd forever carve one of the pneumatic wheeled carvestiks.

Go here to see some Tierney board riding in a bowl

Not enough to pass a judgement on. But just because it's proven to be marginally workable doesn't mean it doesn't suck. I didn't say, "can't do it", I said, "suck". You can ride a Virus in the pipe and make it work, sort of, but compared to the right equipment it would suck.

So I don't see an obvious reason why a Dirtsurfer would suck in a pool (well so long as you don't try to varial one). Why would you think it would suck?

Because it's big, heavy and clunky and unlike a BMX bike there's no way to hang onto it. You'd be reduced to carving around, assuming you could even get a good start. I'm trying to picture how you'd drop in on one...

I want to avoid people trying somehow compare the Dirtsurfer with the "history" of skateboarding with the recent Dogtown craze. Since the post made it sound like you were attaching the 1970's pool-riding craze by teenage skateboards to a 2005 summer-fix-search by middle-age hardbooters :) (I'm joking - if the smiley face didn't make it clear)

I only wish I was part of the pool-riding craze - I started in 1976 but there were no pools here. When they talk in the video about everyone being connected by the magazine, I was part of that scene. Those guys were my heros. Until I actually met Alva - what an *******. But I digress.

My point was that a dirtsurfer looks like a fun toy, but it's not a substitute for a skateboard. Just because you could maybe force it to work half-assed in a pool doesn't mean it doesn't suck in the pool. I can take my slalom board and maybe hang-on for a ride down a local grass hill, too - doesn't mean it doesn't suck in that capacity.

[philistine]

Originally posted by lonerider

When you are talking about riding for the masses... you can't except everyone to be "hardcore" and/or "extreme."

Well, I don't think either you or I would claim to be harcore or extreme, but we can do it right?

But yeah, I agree, old people should stick to the dirtsurfer. Especially if they're scared! ;)

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill

That's the version with the skateboard wheels, so functionally it's a skateboard with different trucks as far as I'm concerned. And there ain't no way he'd forever carve one of the pneumatic wheeled carvestiks.

Interesting, I find that to be a "convenient" re-classification ;) So what you are really saying is that anything with pneumatic rubber wheels isn't skateboard? Obviously, rubber wheels aren't going to roll as-long, because they are designed for traction on hills. You what you are staying is that if you take a Carvestik, and re-modify it for downhill riding... and THEN take it into the bowl, it will suck.... well duh!

Not enough to pass a judgement on. But just because it's proven to be marginally workable doesn't mean it doesn't suck. I didn't say, "can't do it", I said, "suck". You can ride a Virus in the pipe and make it work, sort of, but compared to the right equipment it would suck.

Ok, this might be a semantic issue. As I said before... it might not be you cup of tea... but then again... you are the one "passing judgement" without doing much research (i.e. going to these alternative design website to learn about them before making comments about them).

Because it's big, heavy and clunky and unlike a BMX bike there's no way to hang onto it.

How about hanging onto the rail just like on a skateboard?

Before you are going to counter-argue that he might be using straps, I've seen people put mountain-board straps onto skateboards and ride though in a bowl as well.

You'd be reduced to carving around, assuming you could even get a good start. I'm trying to picture how you'd drop in on one...

Lol... an hardbooter complaining that "all you could do is carve around". If I remember correctly from the Dogtown documentary... all that Z-boys did was carve around in a drained pool at first; it was a while before the first aerial/coping trick and even then it was kind of rare. I'm just hypothesizing here in response to your speculating, but you could probably get away with adding grind bars like on a BMX bike... meanign you could do aerials, grinds, wheelies... my point is that you took one look and made a summary judgement on all "alternative designs" as you put it.

I do spend a bit of my time snowboarding in the pipe and to me it doesn't look that hard to roll into the bowl the same way (i.e. not teeter-tottering in).

I only wish I was part of the pool-riding craze - I started in 1976 but there were no pools here. When they talk in the video about everyone being connected by the magazine, I was part of that scene. Those guys were my heros. Until I actually met Alva - what an *******. But I digress.

My point was that a dirtsurfer looks like a fun toy, but it's not a substitute for a skateboard. Just because you could maybe force it to work half-assed in a pool doesn't mean it doesn't suck in the pool. I can take my slalom board and maybe hang-on for a ride down a local grass hill, too - doesn't mean it doesn't suck in that capacity.

Yes, I wanted to make it clear that the pool-riding past (or lack there of) is unrelated to the issue at hand. And that many people are clearly skateboard-biased - I mean you said a Dirtsurfer is a "toy", is a skateboard not a toy as well? Are you claiming it's also transportation or maybe a lifestyle? (lol)

I agree that the dirtsurfer is not a complete substitute for a skateboard, but I thought that was obvious to any one non-partial to skateboards. I mean it seemed clear from the context that Scott was saying something similar to what you just said - that for steep downhills... a regular skateboard isn't a good substitute for a something designed for downhill and speed-control. And just like what you said about the Tierney board in a bowl... just because *some* people can make it marginally workable doesn't mean that it doesn't "suck," as you put it, for most people.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by lonerider

You what you are staying is that if you take a Carvestik, and re-modify it for downhill riding... and THEN take it into the bowl, it will suck.... well duh!

No, it sucks for vert as it stands. The pneumatic tired one would suck even harder. I'm just saying that the design he is using with the urethane wheels isn't that far off conventional skateboard design, unlike the Tierney or the dirtsurfer. None of these designs are really meant to be used to ride vert.

And that many people are clearly skateboard-biased - I mean you said a Dirtsurfer is a "toy", is a skateboard not a toy as well? Are you claiming it's also transportation or maybe a lifestyle? (lol)

God no, they're all toys. FWIW a well-setup short longboard works better as general transportation than any of those other designs, all of which only really come into their own on hills. But if I have to get from A to B self-propelled, all things considered I'd rather have a bicycle.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill

No, it sucks for vert as it stands. The pneumatic tired one would suck even harder. I'm just saying that the design he is using with the urethane wheels isn't that far off conventional skateboard design, unlike the Tierney or the dirtsurfer. None of these designs are really meant to be used to ride vert.

Vert? We were talking about pools and curve bowls... stop changing the subject when you get backed into a corner ;)

I but see your attempted point, so yea the tierney and dirtsurfer are two wheelers or "bi-cycles" and are designed for hills and not vert/skatepark riding.

God no, they're all toys. FWIW a well-setup short longboard works better as general transportation than any of those other designs, all of which only really come into their own on hills. But if I have to get from A to B self-propelled, all things considered I'd rather have a bicycle.

Hmm... I'd have to ride a Dirtsurfer again to make sure that they roll easier/longer than my 38" Loaded Vanguard or my 30" Sidewinder. I agree though that for that much weight, you might as well ride a bicycle - and a bicycle is the more efficient transportation out of all of those. But I just mentioned "transportation" to say that the original posts were *not* about that, and more about "downhill fun." As the original poster had a "thrill" in the not-fun-ouchie type of way going downhill on a skateboard. Although I'm sure he soon will be having a blast going downhill on one (like I do now).

[Neil Gendzwill]

Can you pump a dirtsurfer?

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill

Can you pump a dirtsurfer?

Short answer is yes.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Cool. Well enough to truck along on the flats, or enough work that you'd way rather push? I find with my slalom board that I can pump indefinitely on flat ground, although I probably expend more energy than I would if I simply pushed.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill

Cool. Well enough to truck along on the flats, or enough work that you'd way rather push? I find with my slalom board that I can pump indefinitely on flat ground, although I probably expend more energy than I would if I simply pushed.

Yes, that involves the long answer. I personally would probably push it because it rolls so long after a kick and is much more energy efficient (can roll for like 25 ft (~8m) per kick once you get it going and it maintains speed from dips in the road much better). That being said I really do like pumping my slalom board indefinitely like you said - but that's for fun... not for transportation.

Just to repeat myself, I specifically don't want to compare skateboards vs. dirtsurfer for transportation. I personally view the Dirtsurfer for steep downhill recreation - of that I see it as the best thing to date in my own opinion.

[SWriverstone]

Okay guys---you've got WAY too much time on your hands. :D

Neil said about the Dirtsurfer...

Because it's big, heavy and clunky and unlike a BMX bike there's no way to hang onto it. You'd be reduced to carving around, assuming you could even get a good start. I'm trying to picture how you'd drop in on one...

Actually, you can buy footstraps for the Dirtsurfer that will hold you to it like a snowboard. And from what I've seen/heard, good guys can catch all kinds of air on them. I have a set of the footstraps, but haven't installed them yet as I'm still just getting comfortable riding it (and like being able to escape quickly!).

Scott

[philistine]

yeah these guys have been going at it all day now.

[Gecko]

skating real pools is an art...watching Jay (Adams) and Shobo (Kubo) Skate a park pool and then watching them skate a real pool showed that the art requires a proper tool. Modern board shapes will work but not well...the best pool boards have changed little since the mid to late 80s. Deathbox, Alva, Dogtown and a few others still make POOL boards that are perfect for their use. The thing I've notice about pools, both park and backyard, is that your feet need to be stable, you can't be moving them around like you can on ramp riding. I can't say that I've skated pools lately but then I've been at sea for 30 days but I'll be skating Marubra soon enough and that pool looks good...I will be enjoying my new(old stock) Roskop Face blank...strage after years on popcicle stick boards my body had no issues relearning a wide board...it actually felt like finding an old friend

oh yeah and onle last thing Pools are Vert even if they barely approach vertical the rest of the pool factors make it more difficult that a ramp the same height.

[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by Gecko

...but I'll be skating Marubra soon enough...

Hey Gecko, send me a mail when you get to Sydney...