slabber Posted February 14, 2023 Report Share Posted February 14, 2023 (edited) I have been using TD3 standards and step-ins successfully with my UPZ RC11 boots with the small 279mm shell size (23-25.5MP) without needing to do anything special. Was going to set up some TD3 Sidewinders and found the rear step-in heel block is too far back. Bomber references flipping around the front toe block for the TD3 standards for boots smaller than mine - looks like I will need to do this for the Sidewinders. https://bomberonline.3dcartstores.com/assets/images/PDFs/TD3FittingtoSmallBoots.pdf Have others done this and if so, any concerns? Edited February 14, 2023 by slabber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 14, 2023 Report Share Posted February 14, 2023 I begged Fin to put an angle on the back of the heel piece to permit this, but the die was already made and expensive. He suggested I buy real boots. (i.e. not UPZ) Thanks Fin! You need that ramp to engage the little pins to add preload to the system. Flipping the block around means all loads get taken by the big pin and its plastic bushing. Sorry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabber Posted February 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, Corey said: You need that ramp to engage the little pins to add preload to the system. Flipping the block around means all loads get taken by the big pin and its plastic bushing. Sorry. Sorry, it's the toe block that gets flipped around to keep the boot further back which will allow the heel to engage properly. The photo above originally had a STD toe block in the normal orientation which I didn't want to include to confuse the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VSR-Alex Posted February 14, 2023 Report Share Posted February 14, 2023 It'll work but you lose a feature: When you flip the toe block around, you don't get to use the feature of the front bail stop. On standard bails, this isn't a problem since you are manipulating the bail to clip in anyway. On step-in, you will need to manipulate the front bail to lock-in your boot first, which means you need to reach down to flip the front bail up. As you can imagine, this somewhat ruins the experience of the "step-in" feature. You could add a PTFE washer to go in-between the gap between the bail end-links and the toe block to increase friction to keep the bail up when you are trying to step-in. These will need to be replaced every season. I did that for my standard bails to prevent them from slamming into my board. Give it a try. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 14, 2023 Report Share Posted February 14, 2023 Yup, totally ok to flip the toe block around. You can center your boot on the board? My front foot is all the way forwards with M28 UPZs and it's still slightly biased to the heel edge. Rear foot is fine due to sidecut taper differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabber Posted February 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2023 Yup, thanks - will be harder to hook the toe into the bail. I find I'm reaching down anyhow to clear snow from the binding before pushing the heel down in any case so hopefully won't be worse than that. Wish I'd known there was a difference in the range provided in the SW blocks vs the regular TD3s... 5 minutes ago, VSR-Alex said: It'll work but you lose a feature: When you flip the toe block around, you don't get to use the feature of the front bail stop. On standard bails, this isn't a problem since you are manipulating the bail to clip in anyway. On step-in, you will need to manipulate the front bail to lock-in your boot first, which means you need to reach down to flip the front bail up. As you can imagine, this somewhat ruins the experience of the "step-in" feature. You could add a PTFE washer to go in-between the gap between the bail end-links and the toe block to increase friction to keep the bail up when you are trying to step-in. These will need to be replaced every season. I did that for my standard bails to prevent them from slamming into my board. Give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted February 14, 2023 Report Share Posted February 14, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Corey said: You can center your boot on the board? My front foot is all the way forwards with M28 UPZs and it's still slightly biased to the heel edge. Rear foot is fine due to sidecut taper differences. This is the issue with UPZ in smaller sizes (24-28). Even at its most forward position the boot is set back on the binding. Putting your boot heel in line (directly over) the edge will mean your toe shell is NOT aligned over its edge by about 1-2cm (less with M27-28). This typically occurs at the front foot, not the back. I found this especially acute with SW's but occurs with all available bindings. The only one I could move the boot adequately forward is Catek which is not a great option IMHO. Such are the joys of small size UPZ. I'd say move the boot as far forward in the binding as possible using the block flip, align as best as you can (maybe be allow some overhang on the heel) and just ride! Or do a mod. - Drilling for F2's, routing for TD3's...or change to Deeluxe/MS...or forget it all and just ride! Edited February 14, 2023 by rjnakata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted February 14, 2023 Report Share Posted February 14, 2023 8 hours ago, Corey said: I begged Fin to put an angle on the back of the heel piece to permit this, but the die was already made and expensive. He suggested I buy real boots. (i.e. not UPZ) Thanks Fin! Corey, is this what you were thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 15, 2023 Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 Yes, but it's admittedly a bad idea once you sketch it out like that. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabber Posted February 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 (edited) I think I'm sorted after flipping toe block. Boot centered reasonably. Looks like I need to flip the non step in SW toe block for the front foot as well Edited February 15, 2023 by slabber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted February 17, 2023 Report Share Posted February 17, 2023 On 2/15/2023 at 9:04 AM, slabber said: I think I'm sorted after flipping toe block. Boot centered reasonably. Looks like I need to flip the non step in SW toe block for the front foot as well How well did the front foot center over the board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabber Posted February 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2023 Reasonably centered. Blocks are further forward than on rear binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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