Guest johann Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 "For the 2005 season Whiteface mountain has decided to cut off mountain biking. This is very dissapointing because this is one of the up and coming mountains in the downhill world. Mike, the person who runs downhilling in the summer, was planning on having a race series. It would be a shame to see such a good mountain go to waste. If you would like to help us out you can send e-mail's to jrand@whiteface.com and you can sign our petition http://www.petitiononline.com/Downhill/petition.html " Please sign the petition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derf Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 I am not familiar with the region, but isn't it located in a national park or something like that? Mountain biking creates a lot of ground erosion, so maybe they are doing this to preserve the mountain and it's wildlife. The same thing happened to Tremblant a short while ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 "Mountain biking creates a lot of ground erosion" So THEY say. The mountains were here millions of years before MTB's and MTB's will not be what stops them from being around millions more. The erosion thing is propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derf Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by Phil "Mountain biking creates a lot of ground erosion" So THEY say. The mountains were here millions of years before MTB's and MTB's will not be what stops them from being around millions more. The erosion thing is propaganda. I am a mountain biker myself and I believe it. Mountains will stay there, no problem, but in what shape? Fat tires move soil around when rolling, enlarging trails and making them deeper, and when this happens, trees and vegetation have less space for their roots, so they die earlier, and when vegetation dies, the soil erodes twice as fast, and this creates a vicious circle. This is why it is important to respect the mountain you ride on and respect off limits or regeneration zones. In essence, soil erosion is not propaganda, it is a fact, same as greenhouse gases. To make you feel better, mountain bikes are not the worst soil eroders, horses erode the soil way more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvCanada Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 hehe Derf, just got back from Mount Royal for mountain biking... and noticed that half the trails are now "zones de re-naturalisation" While I would respect those signs if it were a real mountain in REAL nature... I think I'll still be using those trails, there are some decent ones up there! I guess if they start planting trees I'll stop shredding the trails, but I don't think that's happening. Somehow I don't think I'm harming the local squirrel population :) they seem to not fear humans at all! Sometimes they even throw stuff from their trees at you if you stop to rest. There are also some tame groundhogs that seem to enjoy watching people mountain bike :) conditions are great in the morning, when the snow is packed and there are little "ice dunes". it gets slushy by afternoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Don't get me wrong, I am all for respecting trail signs and such. Still, MTB effects are negligible in the grand scheme of things. There are trails that are hundreds of years old that have been used by horses, carts, etc. Along these trails there is much vegetation. Erosion has happened, but it is not that bad. Anti-biking groups have used the argument that you use to close trails. It is propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkallinen Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Mountain Bikes cause little trail damage in comparison with say ATV, Motocross & 4x4`s. MTB riding has been a passion of mine for many years and living in the land of flat country its often tough to find a nice area to ride that has not been destroyed by ATV`s in national forests. The damage would be far less if they banned motorized trail usage and allowed only MTB`s to ride them. I have noticed though while spending a vacation at Lutsen Mt. in May that open up the trails to MTB riders early and there still is snow on some of the ski trails and the snowmelt runoff combined with the MTB riders create a lot of erosion. Saw one biker pushing his back to his car and he looked like he had been dipped totally in mud. He pulled off his goggles and it was the only clean place on him. :D He must have had a nasty ride down a washout. I didn`t bother to bring my bike along since I knew the conditions would create even more erosion. I always look at conditions before heading out so as to not add to the erosion problems. I`m looking forward to my June Vacation this year, hopefully it will be drier. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Where I live, the trails close after heavy rain until the park rangers inspect them and deem them ready to open. Again, I respect trail closure. I think that as far as land access is concerned, this is the best way to go. If you have a really rainy year, it is tough, but at least you know the trails will be there for you when they dry out. MTB'ers are probably familiar with what they do in B.C. - wherever the trails are too wet, they put elevated ladder/tree bridges in place of the trail. This stops erosion and makes the riding even more fun IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johann Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Yah, so what about all the clear cut trails downt he fall line on mountains for snowboarding and skiing? I'm sure water and melting snow running down those can't be very good. I was just hoping to get some signatures on a petition. I believe orda had decided to close the mtb portion of whiteface since their numbers were down 50% from last year. I just noticed that the petition worked, so horray! I read a report on snowmobilers vs mtb on erosion and even the snowmobilers cause more issues with erosion than we do. If ya think about how much a mountain biker will maintain a trail, and how ofton we'll build stuff over fallen trees, where a snowmobilers will just cut new trail sections and go around fallen objects it kinda makes sense. Plus they like wider trails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skatha Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Unfortunately the argument about how 4x4 and snowmobiles cause more erosion would be drowned out by the very vocal advocates for snowmobiling and 4-wheeling if you tried to exclude them and not the MTBs, too. I was stunned when the industry was able to overturn the Nat'l. Park ban. Not only do they cause more erosion and disrupt native fauna, people who ride them generally could give a rat's ass about supporting an ecosystem-which is generally not the case with MTBers-and they're noisy as hell. Congressmen apparently don't care. Whiteface wants to keep THEM out-the MTBs are probably "collateral" damage BTW, the MTBers in Houston(Helltown) do much to provide upkeep and rejuvenation to Memorial Park and the Cypress Creek trailarea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derf Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Probably I am overeacting with MTB, like I said, I am a mountain biker myself, it's just that I also am an environmentalist or nature lover or call it what you like, so I am sensitized to stuff like that. Some mentionned ATVs, motocross and snowmobiles; I had completely forgotten about them. Yes, they are the worst. I don't want to start a flame war, but I think they should be banned as leisures, just be used for utility. At least, it's not as bad as clear cutting by wood and paper companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 after the equine freaks go on one of their big rides this can be seen, they trash the roads and trails but if I take a ATV or a dirtbike through the same area I get in deep **** ohh speaking of **** horses **** all over the place we see this all the time on the MDC roads here in MA second place goes to dirtbikes third are ATVs also the budweiser swilling guys in their trucks with big tires do a considerable amount of damage they see a vernal pool and to them its a good place to do some muddin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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