Frank Morales Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 I just rode my 4807 178 in pow with hard boots and td2s and it was unreal. How does the undertaker compare? Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy S. Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 The undertaker is bigger. It must be better! Seriously, I dunno, but Undertaker is a cooler name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 I own a 4807 178 but have not ridden it yet due to extreme lack of powder this season in my corner of the country. I hand-flexed an Undertaker, I think it was a 185, at a shop in Bend It's definitely stiffer in the nose and mid-section than the 4807 based on a hand-flexing comparison. Hard to tell on the tail, I would need to tlex them back-to-back. Edit: given Digger's post, most likely a 185, not 187. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 I had both and the Undertaker is Useless on anything other than pure powder. Very poor torsional stiffness. I tried to roll it on edge and it just washed out. It balked on anything hard. The 4807 will actually carve a turn on hard pack and works great in the pow. If you are out on a powder day and it starts getting cut up into push piles the 4807 will continue to shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Digger Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Here's my three cents worth - maybe a whole nickel! I have been riding the Rossi 185 Undertaker for the past 4 seasons with hard boots. I have ridden the 4807 on plates and did not like it. My girlfriend rides the 4807 with hard boots and loves it but she is about 125# not 180#. She has rode my Undertaker one day and liked the float but it was way too big for her. Now for the details: Rossi used to make the Undertaker in a 198cm? and it was narrower. Then 4 years ago they shortened it to a 185cm and made the nose wider with a good taper to the tail. It is a much better board, they got it right. IMO the 4807's are not very well built. I ride 100+ days a year a Snowbird, about half those being powder days. Lots of my friends ride the 4807's and there have been a lot of warranty problems. Sidecut radius on the 185 is about 13m and the 4807 is about 11m. I carry a lot speed in the powder and on the groomers and for me 11m sidecut is just too squirrely. If your ride hard boots on a 4807 and do some groomer time I assure that board will have problems. Also Dynastar will no longer be making the 4807. They did make a load of them and apparently they can still be had on Ebay for cheap. I don't know Mr. Buggs but I do remember the Undertaker he had for sale some time ago was the older model. The 185cm is a fine powder board if you can get your hands on one. It of course comes down to what your style and needs are and what works for you. The Undertaker will carve... I'll try to attach a photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 I had the 185 but dont have nearly the days you have on either board. I have the 178-07 and use it sparingly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Morales Posted March 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Thanks for the replys and pics. I love blowing by skiers and jibbers with boards that are to small to handle the pow . Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Frank, said hi to Tom for you! Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Morales Posted March 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Bryan How did the event turn out? Sorry I couldn't make it .Did Sims race ? Give us a update . Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 1. that pic is awsome 2. Undertaker is until new models come out the best production swallowtail on the market 3. too bad they stopped the 198! 4. O'sin ( now Dynastar) is not comparable since its is a more versatile but less powder oriented board. It lacks the long stiff nose of the ST, and the softer mid section. 5. Nice pic again! Nils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420calvin Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 2. Undertaker is until new models come out the best production swallowtail on the market Nils, could you explain further why you feel the Undertaker is the best production swallowtail? i'm not questioning the fact, just looking for some specifics. i'm torn between a Nitro 181 swallowtail and an Undertaker. i can get either one for pretty much the same price. the Nitro seems a bit wider, it's lighter, and it's a bit shorter. the Undertaker seems stiffer, very durable, and narrower at the waist. i'm really curious how they will ride. they seem like very different beasts. the Nitro would probably be super fun for resort riding on pow days, but that's just a hunch. it seems like the Undertaker might be a bit less forgiving and require much more open area (and speed) to shine. my regular riding is some open areas above treeline giving way to fairly tight trees. tree riding is not why i want a swallowtail (i've got a 4807 for the tight stuff) but it would be nice to have some flexibility in case i wanted to spend a bit of time in the trees on a pow day. the Nitro and Rossi seem like they'll ride very differently. i'd love to hear other thoughts on these two boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420calvin Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 pic of the Rossi for good measure sorry to hijack this thread :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by nils 4. O'sin ( now Dynastar) is not comparable since its is a more versatile but less powder oriented board. It lacks the long stiff nose of the ST, and the softer mid section. Well, I finally got on my 4807 yesterday. It was only in a bout a foot of resort powder but it was light and dry for the first couple runs. If a real swallowtail puts the 4807 to shame in powder, then I've got to try one out, because that 4807 put everything else I've used to shame! I definitely have to give the 4807 props, it seems like a great "resort powder" deck that can handle non-powder conditions reasonably well. I didn;t feel in control on bumpy hardpack later in the day, but it did rail nicely even in softies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Morales Posted April 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Mike I feel the same about the 4807 . I used softies my first time out on it and it worked ok. But when I put TDs and clicked my boots into walked mode the board came alive It plowed thru the chop and crud effortlessly. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 difference is the flex/stiffness. The nitro is not meant to be ridden with hardboots for example. Its nose is not as stiff as it should be.. ( well the 2002 model i tried, might have changed). The Undertaker allows for better bump absorption at high speed due to its stiffer nose and tail section. I found the nitro a bit floppy, and also not good for my hardboot setup ( there was some kind of weird torsion feel between the feet, like the board was way too soft. Some people love the way the nitro ride with the softer flex, especially in trees . If you like higher speeds and longer turns, the undertaker is safer and more stable. N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest raphael Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 I've used my brand new Undertaker 185 for 3 days last week-end. I've been on bumpy piste and very very heavy off-piste snow. It just absorbed nearly every thing, sometimes even without me noticing, it just kept whispering to my ears "...speed...speed...". And it was not even pow, but deep melting snow that just was like concrete in the morning. I can't do like Digger on the pic... yet. But i will because on piste, this board carves real good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFOTS Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Have a 198 in the quiver, never seen bindings or snow, even made the round trip to Chile last August but NO POW! I NEED POW! NOW! Ohgawd I HATE the SPRING! PUH-LEEEEEASE make it August already so I can make this year's antipodean winter journey to Argentina!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Ken, Keep me posted on this Summer carving trip, I might be interested if you can tollerate me for a week:cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420calvin Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 thanks for the info Nils! i went and checked both of them out today. the Nitro has a much wider nose shape, and a wider waist. the nose is definitely on the soft side compared to the Rossi. the Rossi is fairly narrow at the waist. both boards felt good and stiff at the mid-section. one other difference is the tail - the Rossi has that "classic" swallow tail and the Nitro has a much wider swallow section (i mean the section between the two "fins" of the tail). wonder if this effects the ride on hardpack? still a hard decision for me. i use only a soft boot / binding setup so not a concern there. how about you Raphael - were you using hard boots or soft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Morales Posted April 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 When I first posted this thread I was looking at a 185 undertaker . So today I added it to the quiver. That pic of digger did it for me. Thanks digger I feel like a born again powder hound. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mini-ex Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 Frank, You will like your new Undertaker! I've ridden a 168 4807, a 178 4807, and an Undertaker 185. The 4807's were a revelation to me on what powder riding could be, unfortunatly I broke both of them. Then digger let me borrow one of his undertakers (thanks digger), and I bought one (thanks Brian), and wow, what a ride. Fast in the pow, and can carve soft groomers safely. Way to go Rossignol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest raphael Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 Frank > Cool, another Undertaker, welcome to the club ! Originally posted by 420calvin still a hard decision for me. i use only a soft boot / binding setup so not a concern there. how about you Raphael - were you using hard boots or soft? I was (and will be) riding in hardboots, but always in walkmode (i even got rid of the flex system) and my Raichle 324 aren't very stiff. What i like with that setup is i can go on-piste and off-piste without ever feeling in the wrong place, it's truely all mountain. If you want to ride in softboots, both boards way be interesting. But the undertaker is the only swallow i ever rode, so i can't help much. I choosed it because a lot of people said it was the best industrialy made swallowtail (well, some hand mades are better), and that it was good for hardboots. If you want to carve on piste like Digger, you'd prefer hardboots. Anyway, every swallowtail can be ridden in softboots. So with an Undertaker you can have both. You may even change your bindings every day, if you like. ;) PS: i don't know if i said it, but there was no powder during the 3 days i rode the undertaker. I tried it in very heavy deep snow, and i think hardboots were perfect for it, softies may have been not enough. But in light powder, i can't tell. Well, Nils (swallowtails.org) says he rides in harboot always, you can trust him, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 i'm going to try softboots on my ST soon! I don't want to stay ignorant all my life :).. Btw when you buy an Undertaker OR a O'sin 4807 (Dynastar 4807 that is), you are now buying US stuff since Rossignol has just been bought by Quicksilver... Goodbye french production....I give them 5 years before they relocate the last factories in europe for chinese factories... Pretty shame when you see the quality of what the dynastar factory makes in Chamonix in terms of Skis. Nils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420calvin Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 I just got back from the shop --- and carried home my new Undertaker! I decided to go for the Rossi because of the positive remarks here. I'm stoked and really fired up to ride this beast. Too bad I didn't have it last week when we had about 25" of fresh pow well it does feel good that i got it for 40% off though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jeremiah Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 I took my new 178 4807 out in the slop at Stratton yesterday, and other than some poorly-timed equipment switching, had a blast. Conditions were what the resorts like to call 'spring conditions'; normal people might confuse them with frog-drowning, stork-swamping, make a duck grab an umbrella muck. Well, actually it wasn't quite that bad. That was Saturday, which was the day I sat on the couch and drank beer. Anyway....Sunday was still cloudy with passing showers, but looked like it might clear up a bit. Got on the mountain around 9am (daylight savings time kicked in, so in reality I was on the mountain before opening), and it was about 40* and cloudy. I had my TD1s mounted about 35/30, which seemed to be a good compromise between normal riding position and power to the edge. With my 25.5 boots, I probably could have gone to 25/20 without overhang. I've ridden my Axis the previous 30 days, so it took me a bit to get used to a wide, soft board. Took a couple runs on AmEx 6-pack, just feeling out the board, and while obviously not as quick edge to edge, it seemed to do pretty well. I took one run up on the Gondola and then bombed top-to-bottom non-stop. I was really starting the like the feel of the board, but figured I needed to compare to something other than my Axis, so I went down and grabbed my old softboot setup. (I was planning on trying either a Ride or a Burton high-end board, but the demo tents were only for some ski shop doing an employee day, so I was stuck with my old noodley K2 Zepplin.) I put the softboots on and took the gondola up. I found a couple runs that had been groomed overnight and hadn't had ANYONE on them yet, and it was almost 10am. I couldn't believe how good the snow/slush was. It was like velvet. I wasn't sure if it something in the softboot setup, the grooming, or the stars were aligned for a perfect run. I did a couple other runs and determined that I just happened on perfect spring snow. The perfect snow only lasted about 3 runs, then it started to get tracked up a bit, and I was having to work to keep the board under control. I quickly reached the performance limits of my softboot setup, my feet started killing me (softboots go from comfy slippers to torture implements in about 3 runs), and the fog reduced visability to about 10 feet. Even worse than no visibility, I somehow found myself on an ungroomed run. Bumps, even small slushy bumps SUCK when you can't see them. Normally I would power through soft bumps even blind, but on an old softboot setup, just not enough stability to do that. I got down, took a break, and switched back to my hardboot gear. I took my 4807 back up to the top and went down the same runs that had just given me trouble on my softboots. The runs were more tracked up, the visibility was still 0, and now it was raining, but I was able to charge the runs. I was doing big GS-style carved turns into big swoopy powder turns and then back to carved turns with impunity. I could set an edge and know the board would track where I pointed it, at least until I shifted my weight and threw up huge slushspray. I tried a variety of turns, from fully railed carves to completely lazy slide turns, and the board stayed on-track and predictable. The one place it had a bit of trouble was big, fast toesides across the fall-line in the steeps. There isn't enough edge, especially behind the bindings to hold the line unless you're right on top of it the entire time. In the groomed slush I could really ride it like a surfboard, even including kicking the tail out a bit at the apex of the turn. As the slush got more and more chopped up, I ended up riding a more traditional alpine technique. Snow was obviously a big part of it, but I never felt I was overstressing the board on the turns. I didn't take it in the trees, but I did do a few tight turns to see how it would do. I suspect that it will be fine in all but the tightest trees, though the relative stiffness (especially with plates) make make it a bit more work than an old free-ride setup. Should be fine for true powder in the trees, a bit less than ideal for the bumped-up mogul chutes that normally exist in the trees. I haven't yet had a chance to take it out in powder, but there were a couple runs in the groomed slop that felt almost exactly the same as first tracks in fresh (without the face shots). The board floats effortlessly but immediately rails when you hit the hardpack. I was most impressed with how I was able to float a surfy turn onto the hardpack and not change the line. Anyway, first ride was a big success. I just wish I hadn't wasted an hour in my softboot setup, but I guess it was neccessary to compare. Jeremiah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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