step in or toe clip?

[Erik J]

I've had intec stepins for 7 season's now, never had a release problem. This season I broke the rear toe bail on my bombers. I didn't notice it until I was at the top of the hill. I never released because the heel pins kept my foot in place. I actually rode down to the bottom like that - broken toe bail half flopped over the toe and heel pins engaged. It actually worked pretty well. Something to think about anyway - I broke a bomber bail before the heels failed. Could just be from how I ride though.

[Sean]

FWIW,

I run a clamp on the front and a step in on the back foot with my TD2's ( I know- to do this you need two sets of binders or buy extra parts... maybe we should ask Fin to sell a combo kit?) Makes it easy to get in & out in a snap, especially during clinics and video work, and I kinda like the feeling of having my front foot clamped in. This is merely a personal preference, but I fear a busted/improperly seated heel assembly alot more than having a TD2 Bail break.

-Sean

[Guest Randy S.]

Originally posted by Tim Tuthill

Randy and all: Doug Dryer and I had this disscution at the SES. He has gone to useing 2 sets per season. It's cheap insurance. He said he checks the pins for burrs and fit to match up with the holes. This is my second season with stepins and I'm happy with them. ...The point about unwanted release as to how many in use is something to consider. As always check your stuff, make sure it's clean and the pins are at full travel. I put spray lube on the pins while working them. So far so good. ... I think the racers beat the hell out of the equip more than the carve guys do? Your thought's on that Randy? Oh yea, one more thing, How many days are you putting in?

I usually put in around 40 days/season. Racers beat their gear b/c they ride so much.

I wasn't talking about inadvertent release with step-ins. Joel's problem was that the heel pins FAILED. They were two weeks old, so the Dryer swapping issue doesn't necessarily resolve the problem.

I too have never had a release/failure with step-ins. All the suggestions about lube, checking for full extension, etc. are good. And I'm not sure I'll be switching to bails, I was just considering it.

[D-Sub]

that really really is unfortunate what happened

but...equipment fails! its a high risk sport. we go fast and some of us put a lot of pressure on our equipment.

Im not sure if lawsuits are the answer, but I do think the design could be improved! maybe its time Bob, Fin, Jack, and whoever get together again?

[bobdea]

one possibility could be that if you are slightly loose in the binding

its easy to miss

I am willing to bet if the toe of boot is not firm against the toe bail the load on the pins in the heel are drasticly increased

I am no engineer though

[Steve Dold]

Randy, what do you mean that the pins failed? Did they shear?

Or did the plastic break?

If the pins sheared, they must have been some pretty crappy material. I wouldn't even expect aluminum to shear in that application. Maybe pure aluminum.

[skategoat]

When my Intec pins failed, they sheared. There was no way I could have predicted it through inspection. The break in the pin was actually a millimeter or two inside the plastic heel.

Having come out of my standard bails twice and having witnessed a friend break the rear bail on his standard TD2s, I'm not sure which is actually safer. I just prefer the way the standard bails ride.

Finally, I think the toughest test for bindings are the EC guys. The way they ride, with the mild angles exerts extreme forces on the bails. Go over to extremecarving.com and you'll see lots of stories about broken bails.

[SWriverstone]

After reading all these posts, I'm surprised nobody has stepped up to state the obvious:

1. Current binding technology is simply not capable of withstanding the stress created by advanced carvers and racers, or

2. You people are just riding too hard for the bindings!

Of course, I'd rather assume it's no.1. Seems like manufacturers need to take note. Or, if the manufacturers' opinion is that these broken bails and heels are the exception (not the rule), then I doubt we can expect any changes.

Scott

[Guest Randy S.]

Originally posted by Steve Dold

Randy, what do you mean that the pins failed? Did they shear?

Or did the plastic break?

If the pins sheared, they must have been some pretty crappy material. I wouldn't even expect aluminum to shear in that application. Maybe pure aluminum.

Steve,

I'm not sure. Look at the posts that Joel put up on Tahoecarvers with pics of his boots. You may be able to tell from that. I think they broke just inside the plastic part (like Skategoat describes).

Bottom line is this is a risky sport. If you don't want to assume some of the risk, stay home. That said, I think its reasonable to assume the mfgs will do their best to make products that are safe. I must say I feel totally confident in the Bomber product.

[Steve Dold]

Me too! I'm just not all that sure about the Intec product :-)

I think the steeper the angles are, the more shear stress is put on the heel pins. Sideways boot load is harder than anything on the pins, because the leverage is much higher than at shallower boot angles. It's because the pins are so close together (the boot heel is narrow).

[skategoat]

I was digging through some binding parts and found my old Intec heel - the one that had failed. I took some photos to show you how it could fail.

First, a few caveats.

I am not a proponent of either step-in or standards. I think to each his/her own. I rode step-ins my first two seasons and switched to standards simply for the more forgiving ride.

Also, this heel could've been quite old. I bought it used with a pair of TD1s. The seller told me they were used a couple of days by his wife and judging by the condition, I have no reason to doubt him. There was absolutely no nicks or signs of wear on the pins themselves.

That being said, I'm posting the photos for informational purposes.

This photo shows you how deep inside the heel that the break occurred.

[skategoat]

Next photo. I disassembled the heel and pulled out the plastic part that the pin is attached to. You can see that there is no pin left, only the little ear that attaches to the plastic part.

[skategoat]

Last photo shows you the two pin assemblies with the springs removed, for comparison.

I think, to be totally safe, you basically have to swap these things out every season or two. My opinion only.