Help with Boot fitting

[RDY_2_Carve]

My foot is very wide near my toes. It normally makes me increase my shoe size by 1-2 sizes, depending on the shoe. It's killing my carving as I can only last ~ 2hours on my 26.5's due to pain. My 28.0's do not hurt my feet at all but I can feel my heel coming up as they are too big (long).

I've heard people talk about "punching out boots". What exactly does this mean? Will it widen the boot towards the toes?

If not, is there anything I can do to get it wider besides custom fit liners?

Thanks!:D

[D-Sub]

custom liners wont widen the boot, but they might allow a little more room in the toebox

if you take them to a boot fitter and explain your problem, they can widen that area, fairly significantly. Odds are they can eliminate your problem if all you need is a bit of extra width in that area.

are you using moldable liners at all? If not, you might want to consider getting a pair of thermoflex or intuition. You dont necessarily need the $400 custom liners that are out there!

[adrian barr]

i had the same problem with my raichle `s - my feet touched both sides of the shell with the liners out !!

The boot fitters will heat the shell and press the shell out into a slight bubble to give you more room in the problem areas.

I needed mine done twice - but now the fit like a glove.

[RJ-PS]

Me too!

I had a pair of 28.5 Raichles that I thought were perfect last year until my heel popped out on some chop and I lost it. I now have 4 screws in my hand to prove that self boot fitting is not the best! Please don't sport your 28s anymore.

Anyways I can fit into 9-9.5 street shoes if they're wide enough, which they're usually not. So I end up with 10.5-11s in street shoes.

The good thing is that you can buy snowboard boots that already start out a bit wider such as the Heads or UPZ boots. Even after I heated the liners in my Head boots and spent many a night walking around in them before heading out to the slopes, I was in pain too. After a hard day of riding I couldn't walk right for a few hours afterward. I almost resigned myself to the pain when I inquired about boot fitting at the mountain I ride. Even though the kid looked at my setup as if I was from Mars, he still gave me a great bootfitting. He widened the area around the toes and ball of my foot. I think my wife got sick of me telling her how good my feet felt for the next 2 hours. What makes it nice for us carvers is that even though we are a niche in the snowboard market, ski boots have been getting "punched" for eons. So a good bootfitter really knows their stuff in this area regardless of whether they know our sport or not. I wish you good luck finding a good bootfitter, the pain doesn't have to last.

[RDY_2_Carve]

Thanks for all of your replies. I'll call around and see about bootfitters in my area...:)

[RDY_2_Carve]

I went to a fitter Sunday and had some footbeds made. While they did make a difference I still had pain, just not as much.

Talking to the bootfiiter he noticed that the shells seemed a little big for me. He noticed this by having me put my foot inside the shell without a liner and then using his fingers to "measure" the space between my heel and the back of the boot. He said normally he fits at "two fingers" and mine was "three fingers". Keep in mind this is a ski boot fitter, and he knows nothing about snowboard hardboots. My shells are 25.5-27.5, so I'm trying to figure out how they could be too big. He measured my foot and oddly enough I measured 25.5! Paper and pencil trace showed 26.5 for me. Also after closer inspection it looks like my stock liners are 27.0.

The fitter mentioned that if my boots were too big then it would jam my foot into the front of the boot, which I have noticed and assumed was normal. This could cause the "width" pain I'm having...

Now I'm looking at whether or not to try to find smaller 25.5 or 26.0 boots/liners. I'm very hesitant because logically I can't see my "width problem" going away by switching to a smaller boot, but perhaps I should try it out.

Are all Raichle boot shells set to cover a length range (ie 25.5-27.5), or is it just my SB224's? Does Head, New model Raichle, or UPZ have shell sizes for each specific number (ie 26.0, 26.5, 27.0), or do they cover a range as well?

Your thoughts?

JPW

[Mike T]

Originally posted by RDY_2_Carve

Are all Raichle boot shells set to cover a length range (ie 25.5-27.5), or is it just my SB224's? Does Head, New model Raichle, or UPZ have shell sizes for each specific number (ie 26.0, 26.5, 27.0), or do they cover a range as well?

Your shells over only a single size range. The shell size is determined by the lower piece which covers either 25-25.5, 26-26.5, or 27-27.5.

The tongue and the upper piece each cover a wider range of sizes; I have 25's and the the tongue and upper piece both cover 25-27.5.

For the true size of your shell, remove your liner and look at the top of the lower piece, on the inside. The size stamped there is your shell size.

I had a pair of Heads for a week, and the shell size was stamped as 25.5. I don't know whether the 25 was really a 25.5 with a thicker liner, or if it had a separate shell size.

FWIW my feet measure about 26.5 cm long when arched and knees bent. I get about 1.5 fingers using the shell test which I've been told is optimal. The boots feel great w/ Thermoflex liners. I think they'd cramp my toes with the old-style regular Raichle liners; they are 225's.

[RDY_2_Carve]

Thanks Mike T, that makes a lot more sense. I'll check them out tonight and see exactly what size they are.

Perhaps I can get some cheap 25.5 or 26.0 shells to check this theory and see if it helps. It's too bad there's no local shops here that have snowboard hardboots to demo...

Anybody got some 25.5 or 26.0's laying around that want to loan out? :)

[Kent]

Originally posted by RDY_2_Carve

he knows nothing about snowboard hardboots.

He doesn't need to. The same prinicples of ski boots fit to snowboard hard boots. Sounds like he did a good job....which was to simply state your boots are too big.

I'd say about 60-70% of people's boots are too big who post here judging from a lot of the advise going on.

Net result, you need the proper shell size and then the modifications for width can be done...within reason. Some boots simply can't be stretched depending upon buckle alignment and plastic.

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but I'd certanly hope that this fitter either will re-fit new insoles at no charge or didn't make them for your too-big boots. That would be very lame for a fitter to purposely make insoles for a boot that is too big.

[Kent]

I'm boot police today....

Sorry for the foot pix. Pedicure donations are accepted.....

Now, if I just simply posted and said "I wear 10.5 running shoes and my foot measures 27.3"...many folks would be putting me "comfortably" in a 28 shell which is THREE FREAKING SIZES TOO BIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Speedzilla]

Damn Kent, I just had lunch.

[Kent]

Sorry about that, I was going to wear socks, but working from home has it benefits.

Notice I didn't show the recently shaved legs for Ironman.....

TMI.

[Mike T]

Kent, your foot stats and shell sizes and mine are almost identical... I use a size 25 SB series w/ a thermo liner. If anyone wanted to gimme a 24 SB series shell I would mold an old set of liners in them just to see if I could make it work :D

I started out in size 27 after "measure your foot", quickly realized that was too big, rode on 26's for a couple of years, it was OK but not great, and when I tried 25's... I went from hardbooting 50% of the time to 90% of the time. I've had a professional fit once (on the 26's... which the fitter thought was spot-on in terms og shell size... 25 definitley works better for me), watched very carefully, and have been doing my own since with excellent results.

[Guest Randy S.]

Originally posted by Kent

Notice I didn't show the recently shaved legs for Ironman.....

TMI.

:D Mine got shaved recently for my achilles surgery. Not as much fun as shaving for an Ironman (assuming you like Ironman which I could never do). I better get off the subject of shaving though or this post will get quashed. :rolleyes:

I went down a size this year with my new boots. I'd been in 28 Raichles for years, then 28 UPS for the past two seasons. This year I got 275 Heads and love them. The move was a very smart one. Better fit and control.

[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by Kent

Now, if I just simply posted and said "I wear 10.5 running shoes and my foot measures 27.3"...many folks would be putting me "comfortably" in a 28 shell which is THREE FREAKING SIZES TOO BIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So does that mean they should be in a 25 or a 26.5?

My feet measure exactly 27.5 cm. I have mondo 28 Raichles. I can fit 1.5 fingers between my heel and the back of the boot when my toe is touching the front.

My boots feel roomy around my skinny shins, but they're nicely tight around my feet. The second buckle (over the instep) is usually only on the first or second tooth of the ratchet, whereas the ratchet straps on the shin buckles are excessively long.

It was very painful getting them molded, so 27s would be worse. Maybe next time.

[CarvCanada]

There definately needs to be an in depth article on boot fitting (mainly how to buy the right size)

I think quite a few shops put you in a boot that is 1 or 2 sizes (cm) too large, so you feel comfortable immidiately walking around. but the right boots will be a bit uncomfortable after a minute in fresh boots.

My first pair were probably a bit too big, but luckily I outgrew their softish flex quickly and my new UPZ's are PERFECT (thanks Ray!) I wear size 10.5 shoes, but my feet measure 26.0 and I have size 26.0 w/ 25.0 Thermo liners, which is like size 7.5!

[D-Sub]

wait...hold on a sec...

ok...the "draw lines and measure your feet" thing is inaccurate, but when Ive done that I was right around 27.4 on my left and just a bit shorter on my right

so...Kent...are you saying I am likely in too big a boot in a 27?

and...isnt 27 = 42?

[D-Sub]

makes perfect sense, and...just based on how mine feel, I think Im ok

funny how this subset of snowboarding inspires such anal behavior, eh?

Id bet I could get into a 26 shell with some help from a good fitter...

thanks for the response

[Mike T]

I've always assumed that part of the reason I can fit my 26.5+ cm long feet into 25 shells is that my toes sweep back and a pretty good angle, much like Kent's in his foot photo. If I had a more squared off toe line, with the same length measured to the big toe, I would be in agony in the 25's with my smaller toes getting crushed.

Speaking of toes - I don't even close the toe ratchet on my boots, because doing so puts my toes to sleep.