I'm new, I'd like to get started! Help me out...

[jmackoul]

Hey all, this is my first post on this forum, and I've got some questions about Hardbooting...

Firstly, I'm both a skier and boarder, however, I prefer boarding. When I was younger, I used to enjoy riding through the parks, hitting jumps and rails and what not, but I grew tired of that novelty about four years ago and began solely riding glades and steeps. My current ride is a Signal OG 159, which is a directional freestyle board, with very stiff bindings and boots. Basically, I only really like to carve and go fast.

I'm planning on buying my first alpine snowboard this upcoming summer. I would buy one now while the season is still young, but I am a college student and alpine snowboards are not necessarily cheap. Anyhow, I do have some questions.

1) Is alpine snowboarding better suited for western terrain? I typically ride at Killington, Jay Peak, and Okemo and I am worried that the high speeds and ice patch roulette combined with narrow trails may be an issue.

2) What size board should I use? I am 6ft tall, 190 lbs, would use an all-mountain board.

3) Is the angled stance hard to get used to?

4) What happens when you wipe out?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks again and happy boarding!

[fin]

jmackoul,

Welcome and if you have not noticed we have some information on starting out HERE

1) Is alpine snowboarding better suited for western terrain? I typically ride at Killington, Jay Peak, and Okemo and I am worried that the high speeds and ice patch roulette combined with narrow trails may be an issue.

Not at all, it works in all parts of the country. Actually some would argue that on the eastcoast the carving board works great for their super-hard (dare I call it ice) conditions. However, boards do tend to be a bit shorter if the runs at the hill are narrower.

2) What size board should I use? I am 6ft tall, 190 lbs, would use an all-mountain board.

Just depends on your ability, terrain, and what you plan to do with it. For a first time carver on the eastcoast I would go around 160's to low 170's.

3) Is the angled stance hard to get used to?

Nope. But do say goodbye to riding fakey/switch (damn, what do they call it these days?). It will feel odd at first, but you quickly get used to it.

4) What happens when you wipe out?

You get back up and try again ;)

More than welcome to drop us a line anytime as we answer questions like this all day.

Good luck!

[ti_knee]

Try some crash shorts (for snowboarding or MTB) your first few days out. I found that I wiped out a lot on my hips rather than my butt these helped out a lot and raised the confidence up.

Best advice ever though, find some local riders and hit them up for a day or more of riding time. I have yet to meet an alpine rider who wouldn't love to take somebody interested seriously in getting into the sport out for a day or at least a few runs.

[lafcadio]

1) Is alpine snowboarding better suited for western terrain? I typically ride at Killington, Jay Peak, and Okemo and I am worried that the high speeds and ice patch roulette combined with narrow trails may be an issue.

Personally, I think an Alpine snowboard and hardboots are exactly the right tools for East Coast conditions (aka the Ice Coast). I have plenty of free-riding soft boot friends on the East Coast who basically only like to ride when it's a powder day because they think riding groomed hardpack is not fun (their loss!). On the other hand, I live for riding groomed hardpack.

[NSSage]

1) Is alpine snowboarding better suited for western terrain? I typically ride at Killington, Jay Peak, and Okemo and I am worried that the high speeds and ice patch roulette combined with narrow trails may be an issue.

In my experience it works good anywhere, some people even ride hard boots in powder off piste. I have never been to the resorts you are at but if the runs are really narrow you would use a shorter board.

2) What size board should I use? I am 6ft tall, 190 lbs, would use an all-mountain board.

Size does not matter so much as long as its not too short, I am 5'8" and I ride boards from 152-185 as long as its not too stiff anything should work but you will have to think about the sidecut radius if the runs are narrow which usually means a smaller board.

3) Is the angled stance hard to get used to?

No, it should only take a few runs. You will not look great or carve perfect trenches but the stance will at least feel normal

4) What happens when you wipe out?

You hit the snow then it hurts and then your friends and everyone else laughs, then you get up and carve a perfect Extreme Carve and they all shut up :P

read up a lot on bomber online in the resources section and check this website out http://alpinecarving.com/ and watch a lot of videos. When I started learning I loved to watch Sigi Grabner and Patrice Fivat their styles are totally opposite but they were my favorites

[Guest]

good responses so far! Just a few tips from someone who started kinda recently:

Dont get a GS board for your first board, go with 10m to 11m sidecut max. On the narrow east coast trails anything higher can be a chore. Certainly do-able, but...not to learn on.

Throw your softboot bindings at high angles and just try it out. It's not ideal, but it will make it that much easier when you start.

TL;DR - Seriously: read all you can on this website :p:p

[Gtanner]

I'm planning on buying my first alpine snowboard this upcoming summer. I would buy one now while the season is still young, but I am a college student and alpine snowboards are not necessarily cheap. Anyhow, I do have some questions.

2) What size board should I use? I am 6ft tall, 190 lbs, would use an all-mountain board.

I've got a 158 older Volkl RT that would be a good starter board for East-coast trails. Smaller side-cut and still lively. Its been sitting in my garage for two years and is immaculate, so I'd rather see someone ride it than keep it. PM me or send me an email; tanner dot gord at gmail dot com

PS; we're talking lower on the price-range.

-Gord

[b0ardski]

Pussbag and I go switch all the time. switch on an alpine board feels just the same as switch on skis, ie backwards not fakie, the biggest issue is the tail shape.

[dingbat]

I'm planning on buying my first alpine snowboard this upcoming summer. I would buy one now while the season is still young, but I am a college student and alpine snowboards are not necessarily cheap. Anyhow, I do have some questions.

If you want to get on some gear this season, and can make it down to western Mass, I've got a small fleet of Pure Boarding boards and Raichle boots available. Click the link in my sig.

-Mark

[jmackoul]

Thanks so much for all the responses! I've been reading up through out this forum and I'm very excited to get started, I'll definitely try to get out to Berkshire east.

Anywho, I have some new questions.

1) Is alpine snowboarding necessarily considered "snowboarding"? In other words, could a hardbooter board at ski only resorts? Mono skiing is allowed at Alta, Deer Valley, and Mad River.

2) would it be stupid to carry a set of poles?

thanks again all!

[Guest]

Poles are weird. When snowboarding, one has an asymmetrical stance, and poles only make it worse. Some may disagree with me, but they are in the minority.

[NSSage]

1) Is alpine snowboarding necessarily considered "snowboarding"? In other words, could a hardbooter board at ski only resorts? Mono skiing is allowed at Alta, Deer Valley, and Mad River.

2) would it be stupid to carry a set of poles?

Yeah of course. Maybe you cold try but I have never heard of anyone trying to get into alta in hardboots. I have always thought of trying it but I don't want to buy a ticket and not get on the lift. I think it would be interesting to try and see what they say. I mean if they let monoskis in why not an alpine board, just make up some name for it that has to do with skiing it could work :P. I'm thinking you might get in easier with a skwal. Maybe if I'm in Utah sometime I will try it :) i have no interest in deer valley but Alta looks like heaven

Um... Yeah. I think it hinders your carving ability and it's pretty annoying I tried for like half a run and I hated it plus I don't really want to impale myself with ski poles. Maybe if you have alot of cat trails and you have to traverse alot it could be a good idea to carry some retractable poles but I would not ride with them. Some people like it and that's cool with me to do whatever they like but i say they have no place in snowboarding

Edited January 10, 2013 by NSSage

[jmackoul]

I mean carry poles for getting to and off of lifts, also to keep momentum on flatter connection trails, just to avoid stepping out of the binding

When actually riding, the poles would be strapped to your pack

[energyrail]

My opinion on the stance, it will take some time to get used. How quickly it will take will depend on a few things 1. Current stance angles 2. The correlation between your boot length, board width which will dictate your stance angles. Getting used to 45/40 or 50/45 versus 70/65 could be a whole different ball of wax. 3. How quickly you dial your stance cant and lift 4. How stiff of boots and bindings you start with. not in any particular order.

[icebiker]

I ride K'ton, Okemo and other VT slopes and feel what NickG said about sidecut radius is among the most important factors for the east coast, especially when you are starting out, and given that you said you like to go fast. The comparatively narrower trails on the east coast will mean you'll need to tighten up your turns in order to work within the left and right trail boundaries. If you're riding a 160 freestyle board right now, you've likely got about a 7 or 8m sidecut radius, and a short running length (guessing 120 cm or so?), so it's pretty manageable. An alpine board of the same overall length will have a longer radius and longer running length, and you'll want to take this into account as you evaluate your options.

For comparison, I ride a variable sidecut board of 9-11m (172 overall length and 155 running length) and find its just right for the tight trails in NJ, NY, PA and VT. That said, others far more skilled than I can go bigger with no problem.

Once you're ready to experiment, I'd recommend Pico as a great starter mountain. Lots of wide blues there and no crowds to get in your way;). I'm up there a few times in Jan/Feb, happy to help you get started, so feel free to PM me.

Definitely spend some time on this forum. It's truly the most helpful group of enthusiasts (of any sport) out there.

[dingbat]

Monoski/Snowboard/Poles:

Hard or soft boots, Snowboard or Monoski, If they have poles, I let them load lifts without releasing a foot. No poles, gotta un-strap. I wouldn't count on this industry wide though.

[BXFR70]

I mean carry poles for getting to and off of lifts, also to keep momentum on flatter connection trails, just to avoid stepping out of the binding

When actually riding, the poles would be strapped to your pack

is there any reason you do not want to step out of the binding? plates are very easy to get in and out of, especially step-ins. I fooled with polls a little from skier friends on some slightly uphill traverses, in soft boots, which is much more time consuming, I thought it was easier to just take a foot out.

[b0ardski]

stupid is as stupid does.

when people see me ride whether just pushing across the flats or ripping a bump run, I often get questions; what do you call that ; me, a snowboard, alpine style. or my favorite, a skier asks, Why do you use poles? me; why do you use poles?

I mean carry poles for getting to and off of lifts, also to keep momentum on flatter connection trails, just to avoid stepping out of the binding

When actually riding, the poles would be strapped to your pack

To explain further the story goes; 20 yrs ago I was an expert skier before taking up snow boarding so I knew how to use them. Used go backountry at Alpental with ski buddies and on the road/trail out I'd ask to use their poles to avoid getting out of the binding and hobbling along. My buddy finally said f@<& you get your own poles and skated away.

I started using them the next day and found them especially helpful for ripping bumps as well as getting up after a fall. Thought about using collapsibles but keeping them in my hand felt normal, and futzing with them in and out of a pack was way more hassle than just keeping them in my hands. I riuned a couple pair at 1st and did have to learn to keep them out of the way while ridding to not run over them.

The lower your angles (sub 45*) the more awkward, higher angles 50-60+ the more natural.

Monoski/Snowboard/Poles:

Hard or soft boots, Snowboard or Monoski, If they have poles, I let them load lifts without releasing a foot. No poles, gotta un-strap. I wouldn't count on this industry wide though.

Getting on the lift with both feet in is more awkward than one footed. with poles getting off is easy and stable. Pushing off and stepping in w/out stopping; priceless.

Add poles with alpine board and go to any ski only resort and claim "it's a mono ski", if you even get stopped.

is there any reason you do not want to step out of the binding? plates are very easy to get in and out of, especially step-ins. I fooled with polls a little from skier friends on some slightly uphill traverses, in soft boots, which is much more time consuming, I thought it was easier to just take a foot out.

most softy stances are too low of angles to be efficient.

Poles will hinder you getting real low, if you want to EC don't use poles

Edited January 10, 2013 by b0ardski

[dingbat]

Getting on the lift with both feet in is more awkward than one footed. with poles getting off is easy and stable. Pushing off and stepping in w/out stopping; priceless.

Add poles with alpine board and go to any ski only resort and claim "it's a mono ski", if you even get stopped.

I only care about people falling over on the ramp as the chair is approaching. If you've got your shoe laces tied together, I want you to have poles to maintain your balance. I don't care if the monoski has two feet side by side, or one behind the other at that point.

[b0ardski]

I used to struggle to strap-in on the lift as a beginner for that reason(yrs before using poles), fell down way less strapped in than I did one footed.

[Guest]

I mean carry poles for getting to and off of lifts, also to keep momentum on flatter connection trails, just to avoid stepping out of the binding

When actually riding, the poles would be strapped to your pack

If you need poles to get to a lift or get off, you are doing something wrong.

[KingCrimson]

Poles will hinder you getting real low

Then why do you use them? Or hardboots at all?

Cranking high edge angles and getting your center of mass as low as possible is, in my opinion, the essence of hardbooting. Hardbooting is very compromising- you give up a lot for the ability to crank the board to 90*

Personally, I'm not hardboots if I want to do low angle carving and ungroomed riding.

Softboots are definitely a better option for pretty much everything except groomers and gates..Don't get me wrong, I love riding plates everywhere and I think it helps my freecarving and racing when I ride bumps, steeps, trees, and chutes on my race boards but the fact of the matter is that softboots don't knock you around and transmit every little bump. I can't say I've ever been riding steeps and bumps and wished I had poles..but I've lost count of the number of times I've wished I had put softies on that morning.

I don't mean to come off as adversarial, but I feel that in recommending poles you're propagating what is essentially a hindrance to someone starting hardboots.

[b0ardski]

I didn't recommend a beginner use poles, just relating why I do.

If all I did was EC I might leave'em behind.

My riding is not comprimised and I give up nothing, especially convenience.

In every possible type of terrain over the last 20+ yrs of 50 to 100 day seasons I've never once wished I had softies instead.

Every time I've ever used softies I wished I had the support and performance & ease of plastic & buckles.

I don't ski in laces either.

Edited January 11, 2013 by b0ardski

[jmackoul]

I'm not saying I need the poles to get on and off of a lift... I'm only thinking that it would be really great to get on to a lift without unstrapping and then strapping back in, especially on days when there isn't a soul on the mountain. MY MAIN interest would be accessing trails at particular mountains, such as Jay Peak, where many connection trails require softbooters to unstrap and then strap back in, or butter/ollie their way to the peak. Also, with the pack, I would be able to stow them while riding. I guess i'll have to find out for myself if it will be of any advantage to carry them

[icebiker]

I'm only thinking that it would be really great to get on to a lift without unstrapping and then strapping back in, especially on days when there isn't a soul on the mountain. MY MAIN interest would be accessing trails at particular mountains, such as Jay Peak, where many connection trails require softbooters to unstrap and then strap back in, or butter/ollie their way to the peak.

If it's any help, you'll find the longer running length on an alpine board will do wonders for keeping your momentum on the flats and you'll find yourself not needing to skate as much. Plus, as someone else said, it's dead easy to unclip and re-clip. SO much easier than softies with all that clipping and ratcheting. I don't miss that one bit.