Front toe edge feels "grabby"...cause?

[icebiker]

With about 7 days on my new board (Axxess 172), I've had the chance to ride it in a variety of conditions: PP, powder, ice. It's everything I had hoped for and then some. Simply awesome. However, I have noticed something and I'm not sure of the cause. On icy sections, say when I'm skidding/sliding to scrub speed or get down very narrow, scraped-off trails (e.g. not carving), my toe-side edge seems to "grab" the ice, like it has "hooks" on it (as opposed to a controlled slide). It primarily happens on the front of the board, not the rear. It also doesn't happen on the heel side.

At first I thought it might be due to the edge being new (board is "factory fresh" and thus not beveled). But given the symptoms above, I wonder if it's more a factor of my bindings being aligned toward the heel of the board, which (I assume) might mean on toe-side slides I can't exert as much pressure closer to the edge of the board as compared to the heel. Does this sound like the possible cause?

I guess I could experiment by sliding the bindings toe-ward (without changing the angles, which I'm happy with at 50/46)...but if I did this, my rear boot would develop some overhang and potential boot out (I keep the bindings further toward the heel since I ride size 31 boots). So, before I make the change wanted to ask you all if I'm on the right track, or if it could be more of an issue related to edge-bevel.

The board is otherwise awesome. When carving (vs sliding) it just rails..tracks real well, no toe drag, no edge hold issues.

Thanks

Edited February 9, 2012 by icebiker

[teach]

When I first read this, I thought "that's exactly what I felt the other day". The board felt great heelside, but toeside it felt like it would grab and throw me if I wasn't verrrrrry careful initiating turns. I thought of several reasons: set-up, like you say, boots maybe too far back; board torsionally stiffer than what I'm used to, not letting me get away with bad habits; or just much less base bevel than I'm used to. But I rode the board again and felt a lot less of this. The only time I felt the grabbiness was on a rutted-up, narrow, crowded section (yikes). So I don't know. But I reread your post and maybe your problem is a little different. Do you mean when you're skidding sideways, toeside in the snow, that it's not smoothly controllable? You're probably right about the boots being off-center. They should have center marks on the bottom' do they lie close to the center of the board?

[icebiker]

Do you mean when you're skidding sideways, toeside in the snow, that it's not smoothly controllable? You're probably right about the boots being off-center. They should have center marks on the bottom' do they lie close to the center of the board?

Sorta yes...skidding/sliding sideways,toe-side, on ice, edge seems to grab the slope...almost as if the edge had a reverse bevel. At first I thought it just meant my edges were super sharp, but then I noticed it didn't seem to happen on heel side, and not as much on rear part of toe side. Then, it occurred to me that the one thing the rear heel, front heel and rear toe have in common is that the ends of the boots are close to the edge of the board, whereas the front toe is about 1.5 cm in-board. My board has a 9-11 VSR with some taper, so the usual "front foot has more board width than the rear foot" syndrome is exaggerated. I'll take a pic of the board with the boots mounted in the bindings and post it to show how it's set up. Of course, the easiest thing to do is just forget skidding and go carve...isn't that what I'm supposed to do with this new board?:D I could move the front binding toe-ward a bit, but feel that might make the boots off-plane with each other.

Edited February 10, 2012 by icebiker

[scrapster]

My newest Donek did the exact same thing first time out. I played with both my stance width and binding setback (I think I moved the front binding slightly forward), and one of those--or the combination of them, ended-up doing the trick.

[BXFR70]

as someone stated above Donek has 0 degree bevel on edges usually, and some of the stone grind structure probably makes it into the base edge as well, it has on mine anyway, you should put a little bevel on or have someone do that, and also the side edge accordingly.

this may not be causing your problem, but you should do it anyway.

[teach]

I think most places do a base edge bevel before grinding, just to save their stone surface. Did you get it ground at a boutique, or mass market? If the latter maybe you have some base edge bevel?

[Rob Stevens]

Have you put a true bar on it? You could be edge high, not just edge bevelled flat to your base... That shouldn't do anything.

[csquared]

If you have not touched the edges since the board came from Donek, it would probably be worth at least doing a de-tuning of the first 6" of the edges at the shovel and about 4" at the tail. You will need a 'gummy stone' (which is not a stone at all but rather some carborundum grit in a rubbery material) and you just need to stroke if over the edge about 3 times at each location. I like to go a little longer with each stroke to blend out the detuned edge. A very sharp edge can engage unpredictably and aggressively at the shovel which can be dangerous (he said, nursing his broken arm).

[icebiker]

Thanks for the input all. I think I'm going to try to shift the front binding a bit and see if that cures it (seeing as the symptoms are not evident on the heel side). If it doesn't, I'll play with the edges. I may be back for advice on beveling.;)

[inkaholic]

Tune it. Factory tunes suck. They are not consistent with any bevel, are not set for you or for your conditions.

I tune every new board I get before it touches snow so that I am sure it is accurate and consistent.

Ink

[Ear dragger]

Absolutely need to get a base bevel on that board. .5 or 1 degree depending on how quickly you want the board to edge. Sure binding bias is important to make sure you are centered, but it will be hooky without base bevel. You probably should get some good tuning tools and take care of you're board. At least have it done. No doubt that is the problem

[icebiker]

Thanks again everyone for the input. Follow up question, though: If the edge bevel (or lack thereof) is the issue, any reason why I don't feel the grabby/hooky sensation on the heel side?

[scrapster]

Thanks again everyone for the input. Follow up question, though: If the edge bevel (or lack thereof) is the issue, any reason why I don't feel the grabby/hooky sensation on the heel side?

I'll let others answer this, though I think I could venture a guess.

In regards to what I said above, I ultimately had the Donek that I mentioned tuned to 1/1 edges--though I haven't tried it out yet. (I had some minor edge damage to smooth out, so I figured I'd play with the bevels. Otherwise, I may have left them stock.) Still, just moving the bindings around on that board did solve most of the problem for me. I do have another Donek that I ride with the stock 0/0 edges and it's fine--though the board is a tad base-high, so that likely provides some of the same benefits of a bevel.