What idea do you keep in your head going down the mountain?

[DrCR]

Originally posted by Mike T

Originally posted by Jon Dahl

One exercise that was shown to us at SES last year, by Sean, was something called the butler (?) turn, where you keep your arms close to your body, one in front and one in back, and starting with gentle turns, concentrate on using your lower body.

Sean showed us that drill at last year's Hood carve fest... I have since started doing it whever I find myself riding sloppily, and it's been very effective!

Is it like these two vids, perhaps with your arms held even tighter to your sides?

video1

video2

Thanks,

DrCR

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[DrCR]

Originally posted by Baka Dasai

I don't think there's much angulation happening in those photos. Something like this gives a better idea of what I'm talking about:

http://bomber.smugmug.com/photos/4514010-L.jpg

Hum, if I was at that board angle my whole body would be basically on the same plane, not split at the waist with my rear hanging out. Is that position held for racers to aid in changing edges quickly?

I read a little about it here: http://www.alpinecarving.com/technique.html

Edit: Breakthrough. I guess is makes since racers would break at the waist so they could cut/corner around the pylons faster.

Armon, what boots are you using? You could have a rather hard time on toeside with nonhard softies (and to some extent with hard softies too).

Just curious, what particular board and bindings are you using too. I'm thinking about getting come Catek Freeride Pros and a Donek for a softy setup.

DrCR

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[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by DrCR

Hum, if I was at that board angle my whole body would be basically on the same plane, not split at the waist with my rear hanging out. Is that position held for racers to aid in changing edges quickly?

I don't think it's got anything to do with racers going around gates. Angulating changes where your centre of gravity is. It lowers it, and (I think) moves it towards the outside of the turn. This gives you a much bigger balance sweet-spot. Carving a turn is all about balancing on the edge, and angulating gives you a much bigger margin for error when it comes to maintaining your balance.

Angulating a lot makes carving easy, which is why I thought it was a good "one idea only" to be kept in the head for those starting out.

[Guest Armon]

Originally posted by DrCR

Armon, what boots are you using? You could have a rather hard time on toeside with nonhard softies (and to some extent with hard softies too).

Just curious, what particular board and bindings are you using too. I'm thinking about getting come Catek Freeride Pros and a Donek for a softy setup.

When I got this setup I was looking for a good all around type thing, not something I would carve with 100% of the time. Anyway, here it is:

Board: Neversummer Premier 159

Bindings: Drake Matrix

Boots: 32 (dont remember the specific model off hand.. supposedly they are mid range stiffness compared to most soft boots. I got them because they were extremely light, reasonably priced, and had the heat mold lining)

I really like the setup so far. I'm curious to try the various adjustments on the bindings. Amongst other things, the back plate or whatever it's called, that your calf rests against, is adjustable. You can set it straight up or angled forward some, which seems to push the boot further out a little (bad for toe drag, I know) but which also seems to make the board more responsive (based on my living room carpet floor tests). Any ideas on this?

Also I was thinking about adding a few degrees every couple days to the bindings to ease into a more aggressive stance. I found my right ankle hurting a little at the end of the day, I guess because I'm not used to having it at any kind of forward angle. Only the first day, after all..

Anyway I am going to make this setup work as well as I can for as long as I can, after blowing all that money. But who knows.. if I get addicted to carving I may end up getting an alpine board next season too :)

Originally posted by Baka Dasai

The "shot out of a cannon" image is very apt. Carved turns barely slow you down compared to skidded turns, and in the learning stages it's difficult to control (or even predict) exactly where the turn is going to take you.

Good to hear that I was experiencing what I was supposed to be! Now comes the whole practice part.

I'm a little curious, though... if carved turns don't slow you down much, how do you manage to get down the mountain without building up more and more speed? Especially on blues and blacks?

[kipstar]

Well, all good ideas;

THe first run of the day, I usually use as a warm up to centre up on by board. I don't have my boots fully tightened, and I make a conscious effort to ride at a low speed doing the following drills on a groomed intermediate slope:

1. Feeling the edges: a series of skid turns in very very quick succession; rate is probably something 1-2 a second. THe purpose is to familiarise with the point at which the edge breaks away. Similar to a push pull but not carved and this keeps the speed very very low

2. Gentle carving with ongoing forward backward body shifts - going into a series of gentle simple carves at low speed with no up/down body weighting; simply shifting weight from the front foot right on the nose all the way to the back foot near the tail and back; around 2 to 3 complete weight shifts back and forth during one long slow carved turn

3. Tighten up the boots to moderate

4. Cross over/cross under/cross through turns - the fun begins. Go through each turn type - I am a big rotator (I first boarded in USA west coast, where people don't really rotate much, then a Swiss guy taught the other style instead which is a bit more practical in variable NZ snow) so work on each turn type, consciously varying speed and radiuses; however keeping all the turns in the medium to low speed zone

5. Fully tighten boots and ride!

I don't know why but the first 2 steps always set me up for a good day. When I rush to get cranking I always have poor timing and not quite as balanced; the conscous effort to think about things initially always has me set up well at least until lunch!

As for touching the snow as per some of these pics....hmm... it looks not so good, it wears out gloves, and it serves no purpose. Plus, if you ride in somewhere like NZ with lumps of ice around, one day, you'll break or sprain a finger when you hit something.

Better to keep the hands away from the snow, and use your edges IMHO

During riding over the day, I like to think about my eyeline, and my turning points in advance of actually turning. I usually have a line planned, then I try to stick to that on the way down. I don't really think about the hand positions, but having seen videos they seem ok.

I often try to think about being smooth and efficient; hence the need not to stuff things up by putting my hand in the snow!

Kip

[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by Armon

... if carved turns don't slow you down much, how do you manage to get down the mountain without building up more and more speed? Especially on blues and blacks?

Simple - you need to hold on to your turn for longer so that you end up heading across the fall line, or even back UP the hill, before the next turn. Well, it's simple in theory - it's another story when standing at the top of an icy black.

Skidding is braking. It's simple and direct. Carving is trickier 'cos you have to make the fall line work for you, for both going faster and for slowing down.

[philfell]

DrCR, if you don't know what angulation is you shouldn't be trying to trouble shoot riding problems. It isn't "breaking at the waist" and isn't for faster edge trasitions to go around "pylons" faster. It's done to find balance and to able to absorb bumps. In the pics you sent of the extreme carve people how would you absorb inperfections and bumps in the snow? Your boards hits a bump and it looses contact with the snow, you sketch out. If you angulate properly you can have the same edge angle and still be able to absorb chatter and bumps. Not every trail is perfectly groomed. This is a very simple principle and should be throughly understood BEFORE learning to do "tricks" like extreme carving (in the early '90 we called it eurocarving). I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here, but reading your post it's clear that you don't have a solid base of knowledge to pull suggestions from.

[NateW]

What's on my mind when carving toeside:

Is my back straight? Late last season I got into arching my back (and hips) to tighten up my toeside carves. It makes me get tighter turns at lower speeds.

When carving heelside:

Is my trailing hand forward? That helps my whole posture, a lot. Not really sure why, but it really helps.

When riding bumps:

Both hands in front of me, shoulders facing downhill? I used to pay a lot of attention to keeping my weight forward, but then shifted my stance forward so that's less of an issue now.

Speed control on steeper slopes, as said above, is all about holding the carve until it brings you back into a traverse. At that point your speed fades, and you start the next turn when your speed tapers off sufficiently. It's tons of fun, I agree.

As i recall, angulation is the difference (mathematically speaking) between edge angle and inclination. You can angulate with your ankles (in softies), knees, hips, spine, etc. Whether you lean forward or backward at the same is a completely different subject.

Above i described using angulation to tighten up my toeside carves... meanwhile I'm also trying to NOT angulate in my heelsides, to get my shoulders closer to the snow instead. It's a fun challenge.

[jjfarbs]

Im with Jack - Look into the carve, just make sure you always take peeks downhill (to choose your line) and uphill to watch for skiers.