What to buy?

[Vyvsdad]

I need advice.

Many many years ago I learnt to snowboard, in ski boots (Not ideal, I know.) and then, because I was young I wanted to do jumps and tricks and stuff, swapped to soft boots.

Fast forward to last year. I'm skiing for the first time in years, and WHOOOSH, and hardbooter streaks past me, and that's it. Because I'm older and don't really want to spend half of my time on the mountain building a jump with a spade, I want to be a hardbooter again, although this time properly. Not in ski boots.

The thing is, I don't know what type of board I require. It's probably best to treat me as a beginner, even though I'm sure the knowledge is still within me somewhere. I've no real interest in EC and laying down in turns, not yet. I think an all-mountain board is what I need, but I've no interest in off piste, so have been looking at boards like the Donek Rec Pilot, some of the F2 line up, would love a Prior, but they're a bit dear. Doesn't have to be new, but at the same time no too old.

I am 6ft and 182 pounds, if that helps.

Thanks.

[dbmgreen]

So I turn 50 next year, and learn't in hard boots many years ago. Like you, no I couldn't be bothered digging a jump, but believe me, you will carve :) if you are on a good board, and in hard boots, it's hard not to.

I'm looking long and hard at the coiler stubby

[Transistor Rhythm]

If you don't want to go off piste and you don't want to do EC a SL-type of board would be best to begin with. You don't need width for float or to be able to do laid down turns, so there's nothing holding you back using the advantage of a narrow board (20cm or less). A shorter board turns easier and on lower speeds so it's more versatile because you don't need wide and empty slopes and is more easy to learn to ride.

It comes down to how much money you want to spend, there's plenty to choose. You could get an older F2 board and it would still perform pretty well, but newer boards and other brands are even better. I think I would rather ride a Donek if I could afford one. F2 is more available and generally cheaper though.

[Vyvsdad]

There are several boards I've been looking up, so far the ones that have caught my eye are the donek axxess, the coiler stubby, prior ATV or 4WD, but sadly all of these involve a bit of saving up for or finding a good one second hand.

As for other boards, I don't know, and am after suggestions.

An old Burton coil perhaps?

I just remembered that the board I learnt on was an asymmetric nidecker. That's how long ago it was.

[Jack M]

Welcome Vyvsdad! Check these links in my signature for some tips on getting started. Also did you know we have a classifieds section of the forum? Good luck!

[Vyvsdad]

Thanks Jack.

I've been keeping an eye on the classifieds for a while now, just getting a feel for prices. But I suppose what I'm really after is opinions at the moment.

[pokkis]

If you are located to EU as you profile indicates, i asume that you follow also for sale section of EC-forum. Shipping charges and no-VAT are costwise benefit when buying from EU-area.

[Transistor Rhythm]

There are several boards I've been looking up, so far the ones that have caught my eye are the donek axxess, the coiler stubby, prior ATV or 4WD, but sadly all of these involve a bit of saving up for or finding a good one second hand.

As for other boards, I don't know, and am after suggestions.

An old Burton coil perhaps?

I just remembered that the board I learnt on was an asymmetric nidecker. That's how long ago it was.

Forget about anything Burton, unless you can get it for almost free.

Why are you looking at wider boards? The Stubby is a nice board but has a bigger SCR. Why did you pick that one? Not that it's wrong per sé, I just want to find out your reasoning behind it.

[Vyvsdad]

I'm going for wider boards because I understood (perhaps wrongly) that they are more versatile and easier for the beginner.

Coiler stubby? I meant to put coiler all mountain. Sorry.

[pokkis]

Stubby side cuts are pretty equal to for example to Swoard, so they would be great catch.

http://www.coiler.com/stubby.html

[Transistor Rhythm]

Ummm yes and no. Having steeper angles always feels awkward in the beginning (it even feels weird to me the first five seconds if I haven't been riding for a while), but you'll get used to that in about two runs. After that a more narrow board means getting on edge and changing edges easier. Also you can get away with some boot-out if you're not getting very low or carve on very steep slopes.

For me there's a big difference in feel between my 19cm Hot Blast and 23cm Swoard. The Swoard really feels sluggish edge-to-edge compared and needs more input to turn. The boot angles I have on that board feel more natural though, and because I usually make big turns on that board the edge-to-edge transfer speed doesn't matter as much.

What kind of rider do you want to be? More fast down the fall line and zig-zagging or do you want to make big C-shaped turns?

[Vyvsdad]

I guess big C shaped turns, with the occasional blast down the fall line when the moment takes me. This isn't much help, is it?

[Transistor Rhythm]

Maybe that Stubby would just be what you are looking for then. A bit big for a beginner but if you're already carving well in your softies already it will probably work fine for you.

If you're not carving at all, get something with a bit smaller SCR.

[Puddy Tat]

Coiler Schtubby.... I'm lovin' it. Carves, ECs, goes off piste, has been in pow, launched off cat tracks into chop, carves through chop, rides switch.

Plus with the single radius sidecut it is very predicable. The board is nice, in that with some carving boards if you aren't on your game the board will hand you your @ss. Instead the Schtubby say to you, "just go for it I've got your back."

According to Bruce it is very similar to his AM board, In fact when I was looking for an AM board from him he said I wouldn't find his AM much different than the Schtub i already had in terms of ride. The AM has a bigger shovel on the nose, but that is only of benefit off piste or in pow. The Schtub still goes there , it just doesn't float quite as well as the AM. But if you are looking for a carving board go Schtub.

As an aside I think I'm turning into a Coiler fanboy.

Dave

[mikeyboy123]

Hey Vyvsdad,

I'm not one to offer advice on boards as I'm really a total noob, but I have been looking for exactly the same sort of thing and am pretty much same size and weight as you.

You have of course got the Coilers, Doneks and Priors already mentioned, but importing to the UK really bumps up the cost, so here are some ideas for all mountain boards on our side of the pond which would avoid the import costs:-

F2 El Diablo

F2 Vantage (not this season's Silberpfeil vantage, which is a different board)

Pure boarding Two, Black Diamond/Bastard (latter 2 are the same board, just different graphics)

G Force Blade - same as donek blade (I think) but more economical to buy from G Force on our side of pond.

SG Cult

Nidecker Proto and F2 Eliminator also perhaps worth a look.

The above are all wider boards and can be had for reasonable prices. If money is no object then there are also offerings from virus and pogo and the like.

And following on from your other recent post, maybe the trans powder!

I'm not saying these are the way to go, but just some ideas if it's a wider all mountain board you want and you also want to avoid import costs.

Oh, and I can defo recommend Blue Tomato - check 'em out. I bought an F2 eliminator off them earlier this year. Ex test board for a bargain price and was pretty much as new.

Hope this helps.

[0815-fahrer]

For you UK guys, you also might want to check the classifieds section in the German hardbooters forum www.frozen-backside.de . Although most is in German, there is also an english section, and all members do speak english if needed. Shipping to the UK from here is no big deal.

CU there:biggthump

[Willow 15]

Wow, with you and mikeyboy123 on board hardbooters in Britain are nearly into the tens.

Keep a close eye on ebay UK as some gems come up. Don't narrow your search to hard, race or alpine etc as most people have no clue about alpine equipment in UK and a good hardboot board may have no referance to the fact.

[mikeyboy123]

Wow, with you and mikeyboy123 on board hardbooters in Britain are nearly into the tens.

Keep a close eye on ebay UK as some gems come up. Don't narrow your search to hard, race or alpine etc as most people have no clue about alpine equipment in UK and a good hardboot board may have no referance to the fact.

Very true, not much comes up on ebay uk, but when it does, hardly anyone else will be bidding, so you can get a real bargain. Best thing to do on ebay uk is search for longer boards. Anything alpine that is gonna be suitable for you is most probably gonna be in the top length category. Ebay.de is the best place to look though and as winter is approaching you should see more and more stuff coming up.

[philw]

Wow, with you and mikeyboy123 on board hardbooters in Britain are nearly into the tens. ...

Yeah. FFS, I'll have to go back to mono skiing if this keeps up. Bloody hell, can't we keep it quiet? I don't want a ton of uk people actually able to rip - there'd be no kudos in it then. The whole point is that it's something the other guys can't do!

Probably I don't have much which would work for someone with those stats. I've the odd F2 Slalom board you could try out.

I'd bear in mind that this place is American focused so it's all long boards and Bomber. I've ridden North American stuff and, well, it's a different deal. I prefer European gear for general piste riding. If you do want North American stuff, then the best way is to pick it up there - otherwise you're paying pound-for-dollar, which is insane. Over here, I've used Blue Tomato for mail-order and then most Alpine countries have decent shops, many of which do mail order too. You can even buy Kessler from Au Vieux Campeur (I know my French is crap, but I can buy beer and work there so... ). The UK is a dessert - snowboard ballet only here, at least if you want stuff in stock.

I'm not sure, because it wasn't my route, but I suspect that a wide range of stuff would work. So I'm saying that I'd rather ride any hard boot board versus any soft boot board on piste, so assuming you're not paying new prices then you can probably afford to be flexible. I would be careful about board weight range for the usual reasons... if it doesn't flex precisely when it should, then it won't be as much fun as if it did. I can't see much point in going too old as the major part of depreciation hits in year one.

Ski boots are actually pretty useful - some people on here probably still ride 'em. I stopped because they don't mount solidly into modern bindings, and with Intec step-ins you need boarding boots. Some of them are even built quite like ski boots.

Oh yes, welcome [back] to the dark side. You know it makes sense.

[0815-fahrer]

Phil is pretty much right in the American / European thing. The best bang for your Buck you should seek in the Euro zone itselves. Hell, Phil even was at one of our closing sessions in Sölden Austria and shot some MAJOR pictures there (I´m still full of respect for yor photographing skills, Phil!!)

Regarding your search, I can actually only offer you following procedure:

- Buy boots first, and they must fit properly. It´s the most important. And the most individual.

- Then, see to it that you connect with other hardbooters wherever on the planet. I would even invite you to an opening session in Sölden Austria for that. Most of us HB-ing geeks have a ton of hardware in our cars. And we are happy to lend you some for "sports-promotion-sake". You could have my Pogo Impact at any time, maybe even a Virus Cyborg if you´re up to the challenge. Bindings would be found too. As long as you have Intecs mounted, I can provide easily. I am not alone at such a session, so you can find all kinds of people, carvingstyles, material, and even the manufacturers there

- Test boards as you can get them. Board choices are overrated at first. Work on proper technique. Do not buy expensive stuff untill you are sure what direction you want to go.

The main point is: get together with other hardbooters. You can learn so much. Age is NOT a limiting factor here. Probably you´ll learn more in a weekend than you would do driving alone for a season. Or reading/talking in a forum. You would be able to eat from their knowledge and driving skills. Hell yes..even a one-to-one teaching session is possible. Nothing new!

Don´t know about the hill situation around London (probably zero) but the Alps are not that far off.

[Willow 15]

Buy boots first, and they must fit properly. It´s the most important. And the most individual.

Very true, but hard to accomplish in the UK. If you can, head for somewhere in the Alps for a holiday that has a good selection of shops which cater for us non conformists. There you will be able to try them on, if that is not possible use Bomber's boot sizing guide. Buy your boots then find a good ski shop that will make you some footbeds and mold your liner for you.

If you are handy enough molding them yourself is not that hard, but I definitely recommend footbeds made by a good boot-fitter.

Ski boots are actually pretty useful - some people on here probably still ride 'em.

Phil is right,I use them but I have small feet so can get away with it and I also ski so no boot swapping for me. It also saves on th Kg(if you are skiing and boarding) when flying budget airlines. But I'm guessing you have large feet as you are a six footer so get snowboard specific boots. They have a smaller foot imprint and also flex in the correct manner which will be better for you as you are starting out again. I would hazard a guess that most people who use ski boots are racing, ex-racers or compromise seekers. I am two of them.

As I have said to Mikeyboy 123, get yourself upto Scotland this winter and I will be more than welcome to help you out. Also kieran is a fellow bomber member who is up in Scotland, he has a glass Donek that will put you off big boards. That board is a work of art but needs to be treated with a LOT of respect, especially when the piste is about 8ish metres wide.

[Transistor Rhythm]

I think Sölden is the best place to go to if you have some money to spend on gear, I don't know of any other place that has so much hardbooting equipment for sale. Every brand of hardboots can be found, even in multiple stores. Also a lot of boards for sale and for rent, but they're all brands that are typical for the German market like F2, Virus and Pogo.

Rent it, test it, buy it. You can just go back to the shop and switch your board if you don't like what you've rented and want to try something. Very friendly service!

[kieran]

I guess big C shaped turns, with the occasional blast down the fall line when the moment takes me. This isn't much help, is it?

'big' turns are going to be pretty scarce if you're doing your boarding in scotland. there are perhaps 2 runs i'd feel comfortable opening up the turn radius on, everything else is meat-avoidance, really.

as for blasting down the fall-line, well. you'll be able to overtake most people.

[philw]

Scotland, well you'd definitely want decent conditions and the equipment could be an issue unless you meet up with some of these guys there. It's been a while since I was up there, but they're not places for big boards, which are more at home on motorways. American resorts are kind of different from European, which accounts for some of the differences in what's ridden.

Indoors, MK and Hemel are both ok but they are what they are... with my teensy 156 Kessler SL I'm about 10 times faster than anyone else there (one or two boards) and I can't conceive getting a single decent turn out of a GS board. If I was any younger they'd probably throw me off for speeding, but I think they daren't tell me off because my lawyers are expensive. Dry-slopes can be a bit faster.

Board widths... well the thing is that they sort of go up and go down with the fashion, so if you're buying second hand you have to bear that in mind. They all ride, but I'd go for something in the middle.. not extreme either way.

I translate those non-SI units and you're a fair bit heavier than me, but I'm an aggressive little **** so you may be able to drive my F2 SL 163 (for which I have to drink an extra espresso because it needs to be driven hard), or I've a Donek FC1 163 which is wimpier and is narrower. My dry-slope board is a very old Nitro Scorpion 162. None of those would I attempt to ride in soft boots.

Wider boards work with mellower stances... again, those go up and down with fashion, but I've been up and down and somewhere between 45-50 degrees is where I'd start (because it's got to be over 45 degrees but the higher it is the weirder it will feel to start). I ride something like 50 these days for everything.

If you wanted to borrow those boards just to see how they ride then that could be arranged. You'd have to get the boots sorted out though. I have only 27.0 boots. I do have some spare Intec F2 titanium bindings plus some older Sims bindings both of which are loanable.

Looking back at that, it all sounds complicated, which is what we perhaps should be trying to avoid. Another take:

"If you just look at what's available, and buy something which is not at any extreme, you'll be really well sorted out and you'll have a blast. You can't buy stuff which doesn't work."

The difference between soft and hard is huge; the difference between my absolutely brilliant set-up and [insert any other name here]'s less than ideal stuff is irrelevant in truth.

[kieran]

on ebay.de there are a few F2 Speedsters, recent models near the £250 mark. one a GTS, and one an RS Equipe.

both are smallish sidecut models and probably near enough your weight range.

there are also a few silberpfeil, but i wouldn't suggest starting out again on something so narrow. you develop bad habits. ;)