bonzo Posted January 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 One thing to mention that I don't think has been brought up here yet is that there is a significant difference in the shrinkage that occurs when the boots/bindings are cold. A second thing not yet discussed is the amount of force you need to apply to the toe clamp lever to close it. When I set up my bindings to work at home (in the house) with suitable closing force they would become loose on the hill from boot shrinkage. :biggthumpTwo big thumbs up to Fin's micro adjusting bail lugs! Easily micro adjust Cateks? Fugetaboutit. I did two more experiments. First I did a thermal expansion (or in this case, contraction) experiment. I put the boots and board outside to chill and compared the engagement force to that required at room temperature. I also compared how well the boots fit the bindings. In my case, the difference was negliable. Then I moved the heel block one notch tighter. While this was too tight to ride with, I noticed what happened under the boot while engaging. Wow, I compressed the bejeezers out of those soft rubber toe and heel blocks. Under a very hard carve, I can see compressing enough to cause a release. Well I put on the harder sole blocks on the HSP's. They are like rocks compared to what was installed by Head. Not sure if this will solve the problem. Only some aggressive riding will tell. I just need to get my nerve up. The alternate suggestion is to convert to step ins. Unfortunately, it appears that a Catek OS2 step in conversion kit is about as rare as a hen's tooth. I've tried all my sources and I can't find them anywhere. Ditto for the F2 Intec heels (the Fin-tecs have a harder pin and they gouge the Aluminum Catek receivers.) So the alternative a complete new TD3/Fin-tec setup. I may just have to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGogoussier Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Queequeg put it as clearly as it can be: "the issue is that the bail itself is nearly in line with the point at which the lever contacts the toe ledge". Even seen from a forward angle, that boot/binding combination looks UNSAFE to ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafcadio Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Unfortunately, it appears that a Catek OS2 step in conversion kit is about as rare as a hen's tooth. I've tried all my sources and I can't find them anywhere. For OS2 step-in conversion kit, you might try Performance Downhill in NH. The inventory on the website looks out of date, so I would email Eric (the owner) directly. See link above for contact info. On the other hand, I recently switched from OS2 standards to TD3 SIs with Fin-Tec heels and couldn't be happier. At first, it was difficult to believe that the TD3 SIs are stiffer than the Catek OS2 standards, but I was able to adjust quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 The toe bail is just a tiny bit loose when the rear pins engage. Any tighter binding setting and the triangular "ears" of the Intecs engage the receivers. I need to do cold temperature measurements and adjustments; this may be due to "shrinkage" of the boot as discussed previously. To do some fine tuning, a little duct tape on the toe where the bail engages might be all it takes to get a perfect fit. As I understand it; the ears should contact the receivers, creating some tension between the toe bail, the ears, and the pins. If the ears don't contact the boot will rock in the binding. Also, duct tape sucks as a spacer as it compresses with any decent load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ear dragger Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Take the set screw out of the toe bail and insert it in the other direction. The head of the screw will be on the top of the bAil. Then adjust the bail height in relation to you're boot. If you must, attach a zip tie to the bail to aid in release. If you are booting out , turn up the angles! It probably played a part in the problem. I doubt the binding is the problem. I use these on all My boards. I do think that head boots are not the most desirable. If u were gonna get anything, I think it would be a different boot. Go over the boot bindig interface carefully. I would not want to blow out of the bindings either!!! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ear dragger Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Sorry. Saw that u have fixed the problem. Intecs should be kinda tight too I do think the soft rubber soles played a part. Glad u r getting it figured out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzo Posted January 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 As I understand it; the ears should contact the receivers, creating some tension between the toe bail, the ears, and the pins. If the ears don't contact the boot will rock in the binding. Also, duct tape sucks as a spacer as it compresses with any decent load. As I get older my memory may be going, but I do recall once upon a time I came across a pictures of a Fin-tec heel, and someone knowledgeable (such as Michelle or Fin) said that if the triangular guides contact the receiver, the bindings are too tight. I sure would like to find that picture and explanation again. For my front foot I used my leash as a psuedo shim for the toe. Actually worked pretty well taking up the tiny bit of toe bail play. Maybe I will use some thin cord instead of duct tape for the rear foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzo Posted January 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I doubt the binding is the problem. I use these on all My boards. I do think that head boots are not the most desirable. If u were gonna get anything, I think it would be a different boot. Go over the boot bindig interface carefully. I would not want to blow out of the bindings either!!! Good luck. I'm not sure if I can isolate all my boot/binding problems. I moved to Head SPs because I cracked my UPZs, and having a high volume foot, the Head seemed like the best choice. I also heard that step-ins were less likely to cause a boot failure. The final straw was when I had a double release on a hard toe side carve. Fortunately both feet released instead of just one; if just one released, that could have been the end of my season. I've have releases before on the OS2's, but I always attributed them to user error. Now I am doubting that hypothesis. Compared to OS2's I have 10 times as many days riding on Burton plates without any incidents. Something wasn't right with my OS2 setup, so I had to make a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzo Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 As I get older my memory may be going, but I do recall once upon a time I came across a pictures of a Fin-tec heel, and someone knowledgeable (such as Michelle or Fin) said that if the triangular guides contact the receiver, the bindings are too tight. I sure would like to find that picture and explanation again.For my front foot I used my leash as a psuedo shim for the toe. Actually worked pretty well taking up the tiny bit of toe bail play. Maybe I will use some thin cord instead of duct tape for the rear foot. I stand corrected. The triangular guides should contact the receiver. My mistake. You are correct corey_dyck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terekhov Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 in a millisecond after: head stratos pro in td2 std (all 4 bails became deformed), 3yrs ago. moved to f2 race ti bindings for times to come - too sturdy and not-springy bails on td2 and cateks move all of clamping elasticity by deforming boot shell plastic, but f2 bails (made from spring steel, older 5.5mm variety) is doing that work. scary experience with happy end (2 days off snow, and in f2 race ti's ever since). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzo Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 in a millisecond after: head stratos pro in td2 std (all 4 bails became deformed), 3yrs ago. moved to f2 race ti bindings for times to come - too sturdy and not-springy bails on td2 and cateks move all of clamping elasticity by deforming boot shell plastic, but f2 bails (made from spring steel, older 5.5mm variety) is doing that work. scary experience with happy end (2 days off snow, and in f2 race ti's ever since). It's amazing that someone caught that on camera. Glad to hear that your injuries were minor. Your picture of what can go wrong is precisely why I opened this thread. I'm glad I made the conversion to Intec step in on my OS2's. You are correct that part of the clamping force is used to compress the long axis of the boot. Initially I was concerned that four little screws in the heel were the potential weak link, but only if you pull upwards on the heel. I also believe that compression of the shell in standard bails results in cracking of the heel edge. I'm sticking with step-ins from here on out. The F2 Ti's appear to be a fine choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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