slalom cone spacing?

[Arclite]

So our carving crew were slaloming it up and we kept messing up the cone spacing

What's the general spacing for each discipline?

[pokkis]

AS long we talk about slalom :rolleyes: my favourite is 170cm for straight line now, later of season it might be again tighter

For offset spacing is variable

[Skully]

What's the general spacing for each discipline?

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=300655&postcount=3

[Arclite]

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=300655&postcount=3

That's bookmarked on my browser now.

Thanks!

[wavechaser]

I did a basic course-setting write up for a teen center group where I did some coaching the last few years, so they could set and practice when I wasn't there...so here it is:

All offsets are generally calculated as offset from the straight line created by the last two cones set down.

Spacing depends on the pitch of the hill - i.e. what is tight on a slight grade may be unmakeable on steep and what is tight on steep may be too easy on flatter hills. Test by pre-running the course or sections as you build it. The more you do it, the more you'll get to have a feel for increasing/decreasing spacing and offsets depending on steepness of the hill.

Adjust these guidelines for ability of course - this is only a guide for starting points.

Here is what I consider some basics for...

Tight Slalom - 5, 5.5, 6, 6.5 and 7 foot spacing, 8 feet only on the steepest hills. Offsets no more than about 1 foot at 7 feet, 1 cone width at 6 feet, and 1/2 a cone width at 5 feet. Incorporate stepovers (one 7 foot offset leading to a new fall line), curves (5 or more cones moving progressively in a smooth curve - 10 for an "S"), offset sections of 4-8 cones (6-7 foot spacing, all offset), stingers (4-6 tighter cones before the finish, 5.5-6 feet spacing, maybe a big 7 foot offset by 1.5 feet as the last cone).

Hybrid Slalom - 6, 7, 8, 10 and 12-15 foot spacing. Offsets no more than about 1 cone width at 6 feet, 1 foot at 8 feet, 2 feet at 10 feet, 3 feet at 12 feet, 4 feet at 15 feet. Incorporate stepovers (one 7-8 foot offset leading to a new fall line), curves (5 or more cones moving progressively in a smooth curve - 10 for an "S"), offset sections of 4-8 cones (6-8 foot spacing, all offset), stingers (4-6 tighter cones before the finish, 6-6.5 feet spacing, maybe a big 8 foot offset by 2 feet as the last cone). In hybrid, almost anything you can think up, and make, goes. Experiment with different sections strung together, and with how those sections link together. Throw in at least three 10-15 foot spaced offsets for every 40 cones set.

Giant Slalom - 7, 8, 10 and 12-15 and even 20-25 feet or more spacing - depending on speed/steepness of the hill . Offsets no more than about 1 foot at 8 feet, 2 feet at 10 feet, 3 feet at 12 feet, 4 feet at 15 feet, 5 feet at 18 feet, 6 feet at 24 feet. Incorporate stepovers (one 8-10 foot offset leading to a new fall line), curves (4 or more cones moving progressively in a smooth curve), offset sections of 4-8 cones (8-10 foot spacing, all offset), stingers (4-6 tighter cones before the finish, 7-8 feet spacing, maybe a big 12 foot offset by 4 feet as the last cone). Experiment with different sections strung together, and with how those sections link together. Throw in at least four 15-24 foot spaced offsets for every 30 cones set (if the hill is steep enough). The trick in GS is setting pumping sections in flatter sections, and big offsets in steeper sections, so that a good high speed can be maintained throughout (20-35 mph generally).

Super Giant Slalom - You'll need a BIG, LONG hill for this to really work! 8, 10, 15, 20, 30 and even 50-100 feet - depending on speed/steepness of the hill . Offsets no more than about 1 foot at 8 feet, 2 feet at 10 feet, 4 feet at 15 feet, 6 feet at 24 feet and increasing as needed for bigger spacing and higher speeds. Super-G is generally 30-45+ mph. Incorporate offset sections of 4-8 cones (8-10 foot spacing, all offset), BIG sweeping 25-30 foot turns, tuckable sections with big 30-50+ foot spacing and milder offset. Throw in at least five 25-30 foot spaced offsets for every 25 cones set (if the hill is steep enough). The trick in SGS can also be setting pumping sections in flatter sections, and big offsets in steeper sections, so that a good high speed can be maintained (30-45+ mph generally), but hills with milder sections requiring pumping are not really considered true Super-G hills.

Hope that helps!

-RF

[Emdee406]

Nice post Rick!

Martin

[wavechaser]

Nice post Rick!

Martin

Thank you Martin - hope all is well in PC.

See you in CO in July maybe?

-R

[Bullwings]

Good info on the spacing.

Hey, Julian, that would explain a lot with why the only board capable of really clearing the tighter course we set up at Mike's was the Axe 2.5.

We were spacing at around 7-8 feet, and my LDP board has a wheel base of 28" on the inner most inserts.

Your Axe 2.5 by comparison probably had a 22.5" WB after I re-drilled it.

[wavechaser]

Good info on the spacing.

Hey, Julian, that would explain a lot with why the only board capable of really clearing the tighter course we set up at Mike's was the Axe 2.5.

We were spacing at around 7-8 feet, and my LDP board has a wheel base of 28" on the inner most inserts.

Your Axe 2.5 by comparison probably had a 22.5" WB after I re-drilled it.

If it helps - my TS wheelbases are 18-19.5", SL (formerly called "hybrid") 20-21.5" and GS/SG 21.75-23.25" ... measured as the distance between the innermost truck mounting holes of course.

Stock WB on the Axe 2.5 is 20 5/8" & 21 5/8" - basically a SL setup...should be great in 6-15 foot spacing...and if you did manage to drill out 22.5" then you have a GS setup too. :-)

-R

[John Gilmour]

IMHO 5 footers.. all they do is cause a wiggle- you don't gain a lot of speed in 5 footers...

I think the minimum distance for TS should be 6 feet. And no more than 4 in a row at 6 feet.

All 5 footers d is limit the top end speed and make it tip toe through the mine field.

I'd rather watch body angulated ripping impossible looking 30mph slalom through 6.5 - 7.5 footers than stupid skilless wiggle 17 mph slalom through 5 footers.

Not your fault for posting this Rick (good job...super thorough).. you just calling it exactly as you see it.

What we need is great surface for great slalom. when the pavement is crummy... in order to add difficulty the course setters just make it tighter... when in reality to add difficulty they should increase the offsets and change the direction of leading a body line of momentum and causing a sudden momentum change..

Rick is spot on correct in his spacing advice... it is what is happening now in racing ... even if I wish it were different.

[wavechaser]

Thanks John - yeah, I agree 5-foot is wiggling. I'd rather have a course you can carve turns in any day...maybe you'd like one of my upcoming "Friends Don't Let Friends Skate Tight" shirtz? ;-)

When I set a TS for myself to train on - unless I know I'm going to be racing on a straight-line 50 or 100 soon - I set basically a compressed hybrid. Features, rapid offsets, maybe an 8 foot x 2 foot somewhere, inside/outside pyramids...whatever suits the hill.

Having said that, my favorite tight courses are set by your protege the Weez. He's like a course-setting savant...just walks down the hill backwards and sets 'em down as he walks - no stepping off distances, no going back and looking at the lines...takes about 5 minutes to set 40 cones and 9 times out of ten the courses need no tweaking and are a blast to run.

I do find with the right hill (and more important, setup) I can still go pretty fast through 5-footers and even offset them a little...still would rather Super-G. :-)

[Bullwings]

Yeah, Julian, listen to these guys ^^^^

Why do keep trying to set our cones so damn tight?? :lol:

I don't think I quite have the balls for full on GS yet, or the location, but HS seems to be more my thing so far.

Time to start searching for some used skennetts or something - I'm on Bennett 5.0s right now. I figure i'll build up to it, i'm not competing or anything. I need to get out to one of these slalom events one of these days. Precision trucks are definitely unnecessary at this point, as cool as they might sound.

[Arclite]

Because its more challenging than our pathetic HS courses! :p

I want to grab a skennett, along with drilling a shorter wheel base on the Axe 2.5 - probably 19" ish.

[Bullwings]

Because its more challenging than our pathetic HS courses! :p

I want to grab a skennett, along with drilling a shorter wheel base on the Axe 2.5 - probably 19" ish.

There's different ways to add more difficulty to the course, like throwing the random offset cones here and there.

Besides, neither of us cleared the TS course you made last time, including you... :p

Unfortunately, we don't have any sort of timing setup.

I don't think the point of slalom is to make a course that's almost impossible to clear and then keep running it "trying" to clear it... I think it's more about clocking times through the course, which we can't really do right now.

[Arclite]

There's different ways to add more difficulty to the course, like throwing the random offset cones here and there.

Besides, neither of us cleared the TS course you made last time, including you... :p

Unfortunately, we don't have any sort of timing setup.

I don't think the point of slalom is to make a course that's almost impossible to clear and then keep running it "trying" to clear it... I think it's more about clocking times through the course, which we can't really do right now.

I know, but its still fun

[Bullwings]

I know, but its still fun

Hahah, yeah, except for the picking up all the cones part after each failed run ;)

[Emdee406]

As someone brought up on Euro Tight Slalom, 5ft can be exciting....if you offset it! Then its a real challenge....

Crappy footage, but this course is all under 6ft and I am accelerating away from the cameraman.

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Super tight has never caught on in the US as the sport developed a different way, but if you want to race Pro in Europe, you need to be able to do this stuff AND fast.

Martin.

[wavechaser]

Unfortunately, we don't have any sort of timing setup.

I don't think the point of slalom is to make a course that's almost impossible to clear and then keep running it "trying" to clear it... I think it's more about clocking times through the course, which we can't really do right now.

I do all my training timing using a Casio wrist watch. Set my (push) start and finish 30-45 feet from first cone...hit the watch when I push off and when I cross the finish. The extra space at the start is for getting the foot on and starting to pump before the first cone, and the extra space at the finish allows me to get my hand on the watch and press the button. It's not exact, but for comparing runs/setups it works fine.

Not for right now, as you point out, but I think you'll find if you start racing, that "to make a course that's almost impossible to clear and then keep running it trying to clear it" is exactly what you will want to do. It's the "train hard / race easy" theory. Make your training courses harder than anything you see at most races, and most race day courses will seem easy - or if it is a HARD race day set, you will be ready. :-)

-R

[wavechaser]

I'm on Bennett 5.0s right now.

DE-wedge that back truck about -15 degrees (-20 if you have a 5 degree tail etc.) if you are using Bennetts front and rear. I don't recommend going much over +10 degrees on the front for a Bennett.

Precision trucks are definitely unnecessary at this point, as cool as they might sound.

You'd be surprised - my first Splitfire rear truck instantly improved my grip and ability to make offsets...found it used for $90. The axle in line with the kingpin, true 8mm axles, and 35 degree base plate did wonders. Def not needed "at first"....but soon if you can swing it...you won't be disappointed. :-)

-R

[pokkis]

I think 250 spend for my Trackmate was best spend money for slalom training.

I mean sometimes run feels good but time is bad, and specially when adjusting and and playing with bushings time differences are small so timing them by wrist watch can be painfull.

Plus when you have timing system then it is more easy to organize races with friends.

Previous year i lost one race with 0.001 sec an another on same day with 0.007, hard to catch them by hand :)

[Bullwings]

Shortest wheelbase board I have right now is 20" - hardly worth trying a TS cone spacing of 5.75 feet right now (at least not with my current lack of skill).

I'm currently on a 5.0 front wedged 7*. and seismic stable turn 130mm (30*) de-wedged 5*.

[pokkis]

I thinkit is more to our wedging and trucks than wheel base.

I'm pretty beginner but i'm running easily 6 feet with 23" WB with 4.3 Bennets wedged/dewedged for 11degrees with 83mm wheels, yes silly combo :rolleyes: but nice run when you get it to speed. Will change rears to RTS 106 soon, used to have Seismics but they are nice for pumbing but never got them work for me between cones

[wavechaser]

Shortest wheelbase board I have right now is 20" - hardly worth trying a TS cone spacing of 5.75 feet right now (at least not with my current lack of skill).

I'm currently on a 5.0 front wedged 7*. and seismic stable turn 130mm (30*) de-wedged 5*.

Sounds almost perfect - experiment with that Bennett at +10* in the tighter courses...bet it will help.

[Arclite]

I'm looking for a skennett or a 4.3 for front, 86mm or 106mm rts for rear.

Right now I'm borrowing a 5.0 and 129 rts from bullwings.

86a 66mm zigzags and the Axe 2.5 I bought from him

I'm either going to drill a shorter base on the axe, or make a board with a 19" ish WB.