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[OT] Turning a surfboard vs. snowboard


henkku
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Based on some of the earlier threads there are at least a few hardbooters here who also surf or have surfed. After some years of hardboot carving I started surfing this Spring, and now I am about to move from Finland to Sydney for half a year of surfing :D

After watching good surfers, it seems that there are lots of things in common in carving a surfboard and a snowboard. However, being a beginner, I haven't yet managed to properly do 'real' turns on waves. So I have a question for the carvers who also surf: How does the the turning technique differ between snowboarding and surfing? Obviously you can't pressure the nose to turn tighter...

Thanks,

Henkku

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Not comparable to carving i'd say!

However, it is comparable to riding deep powder: the main difference lies in the surface you have under the feet: a wide surface of surfboard that is on a hard surface you can press, sink the board in, but basically cannot go as deep as you would on a powder board in the snow..Another difference is the way your feet are connected to the board... anyway the closest snowboarding was to surfing was in the 1975-1983 area, when riders used no bindings and ankles were free!!

The idea with surfing is to keep speed, because speed is essential, once you loose it you loose everything... In snowboarding you will have slope angle to recreate the speed so its not that much of a problem!...

Other huge difference, but you will notice it quick is the skills required for paddling at the right timing and at the right place for the sweet spot ! It can take more than a decade of surfing before you are really confident at taking off at tacky spots... The learning curve from kook to basic rider ( am basic rider ) is zillions time longer compare to snowboarding ! And you eat it way more in surfing ( takes long to learn a proper duck dive to perform when you paddle out :)

HAve fun :), get stoked!

Nils

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Nils, thanks for your reply. The steep learning curve is something which I already had figured out, but fortunately water is a softer element than hardpacked snow...

I will probably compromise on the turning & duckdiving ability and get a longboard to smoothen the learning process and to get most out of the smaller waves that I would be surfing in any case.

The only downside of my surfing, I mean work trip ;), is missing the coming snowboarding season, I was looking forward to attending the next Zinal EC session...

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Guest thomas_m
Originally posted by nils

The idea with surfing is to keep speed, because speed is essential, once you loose it you loose everything...

Sorry Nils, I don't really agree with that blanket statement. One of the most important moves in surfing is the stall or being able to slow down to let a the pocket catch up. If it's a mushball and you've got speed you can always pull a roundhouse to get back into the pocket but you'll never get barrelled without being able to slow down.

Likewise, for longboarders, riding the nose is itself a stall move.

The biggest difference in turning for me is that I turn much more by pivoting around my weighted backfoot on a surfboard, but I ride longer boards more than short. Snapping the tail off the lip is more similar to an abrupt skidded turn on a snowboard where you drive the rear leg.

Surfing feels a lot different than carving to me, the one absolute parallel is the need for 'unconscious' edge control. If you have to think about it, it's usually too slow. Whitewater kayaking is another place where edge control is paramount.

T.

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Originally posted by henkku

but fortunately water is a softer element than hardpacked snow...

Ho ho I nearly choked when I ready this...water is not softer than snow....no mater the chemistry/physics...the hardest most painful falls I've ever taken were on the water...because as soon as you finally get through the surface of the water the lip drills you and if you are lucky you get to the bottom where you can hold on and let it pass. Before you ever try to catch a wave learn to watch the waves, see where they peak, how they peak, and yes a shorter long board is best for learning.

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agreed with the stall, but its exceptionnal, and in jeffreys bay, maalea or mundaka u don't see many people stall !

Btw the sentence is a quote from Kelly slater or tom currun, late 80's early 90's.. have to flip a thousand pages of surfer to get it :)

I kinda like down the line surfing, with barely no turns just racing on the edge, feeeling the water and the glide feeling ! This is why i like speed :)

N.

ps: as i said maybe not understood correctly: water is harder than powder :) especially with speed!

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Guest thomas_m

Yeah, the break often determines technique. I've never had the pleasure but Pipe certainly requires the ability to slow down and Rincon or Malibu on a longboard is just a series of repeated stalls. I actually think surfing a longboard is closer to what I feel when carving than my ridiculous attempts to surf aboard shorter than 8'... LOL

I took this photo last year on a decent day up here:

http://www.crowmountain.net/Surfing/WIP/09-27-03/019.html

I'd much rather fall on powder than this. Plus, you can get back up and continue on, not take the next two waves on the head as well!

T.

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There are, of course, some similarities.

From another thread:

Originally posted by Baka Dasai

Love that picture of the heelside carve in softies. It reminded me of something.

Here it is. Compare and contrast:

<img src="http://www.keyssonline.com/2new-carve.jpg">

<img src="http://64.78.63.45/live/billabong/mdka03/photos/aiwaterL.jpg">

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Hi Henkku

Just got home from a 2.5 hr surf session north of Santa Cruz.

Well there are similarities in hand, shoulder, and foot positioning between carving and surfing. I think the comparisons fade for the two sports when water/waves are compared to slopes. Sidecut of a carve board is the opposite of a surfboard and you drive off the fin of a surfboard.

I surf a little when I carve and I carve a little when I surf. There is a solid connection between a carved turn and bottom turning a surfboard. So yeah, it looks like one is like the other but I don't feel much connection between the two, plus surfing has a zillion other moves. Both styles enhance my abilities on snow and water.

Anyway, I've surfed in Santa Cruz on surfboards from 5'10" to 9'6" for over 30 yrs, and have 9 at the moment. BTW I was on a 6'10" board today for 2 hrs before swithching to a 9'0" longboard to surf a reef down the beach. Guilty of doing the same when carving. I carve a little when I surf and surf a little when I carve. :-)

Man, there are a ton of pretty famous surfers that visit BOL. I'd like to read another post on your question by some of the Pure Carve crew.

Hope I didn't confuse you.:confused: :confused:

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Jim, I was thinking about the bottom turn in my first post. If I understood you correctly, you meant that although the bottom turn looks like a carved turn on snow, the technique involved in doing it is different in some way which is hard to describe.

Actually, I was hoping for an answer of the type: "It's almost the same; just do X instead of Y". This was maybe unrealistic, since it is often hard to describe the technique that one has learned by doing.

I will go on experimenting with the turning, until I nail the bottom turn. Hopefully I will have a better understanding of the matter in a few weeks :D

Thanks to everyone for your answers,

Henkku

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Guest Tim Tuthill

Thats the deal. The carved turn is a surfing bottom turn. The shape of the board and lenght is different, but the result is the same. I have been surfing for a few years, ck out Longboard mag Jan/Feb 2002 issue contents page. Thats me, unidentified comming around the corner at Malibu. 2 days after 911. Carving is realy a skiing profile. Bending the knees to pressure the edge in the turn of the carve board. The surf turn is done around the back foot or in a neutral weighting while moving on the board. Watch the old movies to compare the two.

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I haven't surfed in forty years but I had hoped to get back to it on my trip to Hawaii last week. Unfortunately, the doc said I couldn't get the pins in my hand wet (unplanned dismount from my unicycle). I did take a shot of a surfer with my new Olympus Ultrazoom 770 and thought I'd share it with you.

Pat

surfer.jpg

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I just managed to stand up once on a shortboard and have seen Jeffrey's Bay on a flat day though.

So I don't know but the bottom turn sure looks similar which crossed my mind at the end of last season.

So I tried to imitate the bottom turn picture I had in mind on snow once and after recently watching "Kelly Slater & The Young Guns" I'm looking forward to try carving certain surfing moves.

Ten Minutes to the Secret of Surfing

http://www.watertrader.co.uk/magazine/tutorials/surfing/index.htm

Some pictures (2 pages)

http://stoked.at/snowboard_surfing_boardsports_pictures.html

and the present issue of the European "Surfers" magazine with the Kelly DVD is worth its 5.80 Euros ...

Tim's picture from Longboard magazine is worth to see

http://stoked.at/riders/tim

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I remember "carving" my first frontside bottom turn (last spring) on a double overhead wave. It was so powerful that the board carved across the lip for a 360 back towards a very shocked surfer behind me. I ended up kicking the board toward the back of the wave without a collision, but I would have made it. Haven't needed to throw everything into a turn since but winter waves are coming.

The whole act of driving the knees, pinching the hip, and not petting the dog made some welcome improvements in my surfing.

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