Should/could hard boot soles be even shorter?

[Bora20]

As long as the toe/heel blocks do not project beyond the toe/heel boxes the boots are fine. Even my ski Dalbellos meet that standard.

If anything, the slanted undercut should be ditched from the hard boots, for mor AT type of design. Speaking of which, they should have the Vibram soles too. And plastic changed to something lightweight. Hang on, it already exists... AT boots!

As I will be looking for new boots this summer, explain the AT boots further please.

[BlueB]

Things I like about AT boots:

- Modern design and engineering

- Lightweight

- Nice flex for freeriding

- Vibram soles, less slippery then ski or SB boot soles.

- Compatibillity with ski and plate bindings

Dislike:

- Most of them can not be modded for BTS

- A bit much flex for hard charging in walk mode, a bit stiff in locked mode

- Lack of the forward lean adjustabillity (not a big problem for me, but most of people dislike it)

- Somewhat short cuffs

[xray]

What would make a perfect snowboard hardboot?

AT boots look great to me. Great buckles, much better liners, better soles.

What would you adjust to make the even better fitted for snowboarding?

Shorter sole?

Longer cuff?

Torsional flex?

Stiffer?

Forward lean adjustment?

One remark I would like to place. With all the different ski boot manufacturers making dozens of models even for the smallest niches, the argument that alpine boarders as a group are too small seems a bit ridiculous to me. Just look at all the different AT boots there are alone, and AT is not mainstream. A dozen brands (Scarpa, Dalbello, Black Diamond, Salomon to name a few) all with at least 4 or 5 models.... would make sense to have a new, high quality, up to date, made to nowadays boards, purpose made hardboot. And to me that just isn't DeeLuxe...

[b0ardski]

I've been dreaming of the perfect do it all boot for over a decade.

For hiking in the backcountry I like my old Nordica SBH which are an AT boot with a stiff/soft lateral flex lockout (must have feature) and a shortened cuff (not ideal). If that boot had a quick change stiff/soft tongue, adjustable forward lean or BTS and a DINtech stepin heel, the holy grail would be within reach.

Dynafit and NTN compatibility like the Scarpa TX Tele/AT with heel pins for stepin snowboard binders could take over the SB hardshell market with the added marketability to all back-country enthusiasts.

[Aracan]

With all the different ski boot manufacturers making dozens of models even for the smallest niches, the argument that alpine boarders as a group are too small seems a bit ridiculous to me.

I think that depends. A typical ski boot manufacturer already has dozens of molds in different shapes an sizes, which they can recombine and/or tweak to make "new" models. Scarpa, which you mentioned, have been using the same molds for many years, AFAIK - just like Deeluxe, UPZ and Head.

What *might* be feasible: Convincing a ski boot manufacturer to design a new hardboot using molds they already have. (See Raichle, Head et. al.)

What is highly unlikely: Someone designing a new hardboot from scratch. If you want to cover a decent size range, you are probably looking at investments of $ 1-2 million FOR THE MOLDS ALONE. I guess you'd have to sell your new boot to every single hardbooter on the planet to recoup that - and we haven't even talked about buckles, forward lean mechanism, liners and actual manufacturing.

Edited to add: [geek mode]/ Yay! Post #42! [/geek mode]

[xray]

I think that depends. A typical ski boot manufacturer already has dozens of molds in different shapes an sizes, which they can recombine and/or tweak to make "new" models. Scarpa, which you mentioned, have been using the same molds for many years, AFAIK - just like Deeluxe, UPZ and Head.

What *might* be feasible: Convincing a ski boot manufacturer to design a new hardboot using molds they already have. (See Raichle, Head et. al.)

Edited to add: [geek mode]/ Yay! Post #42! [/geek mode]

Something I was thinking of as well. Take a good AT boot as a basis and build snowboard specific elements on them....