dr. sandman Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Hey Mike, Sorry to hear about your knee, you know that I know how bad it sucks!! (friggin birthdays catchin' up w/ us!!) Hope you get back to kicking full strength soon. My leg is getting much better, I'm now getting so I can walk without a cane a little bit. Went to Copper Mtn., CO w/ wife, daughter & her boyfriend a few weeks back. The kids had a great time on the slopes, and the wife had a great time together enjoying the beautiful weather, sights, sundecks and bars! Already looking forward to next season, and OES 2010!! Get better!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 My leg is getting much better, I'm now getting so I can walk without a cane a little bit. Already looking forward to next season, and OES 2010!!This is great news!! Sounds like your coming along good! Nice to be able to carry something and simply walk isn't it !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted May 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Well, turns out that my MRI was misread by the radiologist and the first two doctors to look at it. My PCL is completely severed. When the MRI was taken the ends were positioned such that it was apparently hard to tell. Sounds sktechy to me but whatever! I got frustrated by the lack of healing progress and went to see a different doctor, a knee surgeon. Her read on the MRI was a complete tear, and her physical exam yielded the same conclusion. The fact that the knee "feels better" yet there has actually been in increase in laxity (due to the fact that swelling is gone most likely) would point to the same conclusion as well. She is strongly recommending against surgery for me as: 1) I can walk, jog and bike without limping or pain (sprinting, not so) 2) I don't play any sports like soccer, basketball etc where a PCL is crucial 3) All the other damage from the tree accident has in her opinion healed 100% (original MRI read missed an LCL sprain... what the f**k were these doctors smoking!) 4) I'm not all that young and yeah, ligament reconstructions work better on younger folks. She prescribed a PCL brace for me, as well as PT to strengthen the medial part of the quads. Says if I feel like things aren't working after next season she'll operate but thinks my legs are strong enough such that I can get by quite well without it. I'll have to wear the brace for all sports except road biking. It's my right knee and I'm regular. I actually had the best carving day of my life a couple weeks after OES, on the completely torn PCL so at this point I'm inclined to give it a go without the surgery. I am expected to be able to resume full sports with brace before the end of June... fingers are crossed!!!! If all goes to plan, will ride at Timberline later in the month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Sorry to read the bad news Mike. I elected not to repair my torn ACL and MCL after 3 months of rehab to see if I could avoid surgery against my specialists advice. That was 17yrs ago. Now you have to stay in shape all year. At least I do, or I feel the pain when the muscles around my knee loosen up. Good luck with your rehab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 The good news is that I enjoy spending as much time as I can on a bicycle when I can't be on a snowboard. Good for building the quads! Bad news is that my quads are unbalanced... stronger on the outside than on the inside. So I will have to work extra hard on the insides. * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 She is strongly recommending against surgery for me as:1) I can walk, jog and bike without limping or pain (sprinting, not so) 2) I don't play any sports like soccer, basketball etc where a PCL is crucial 3) All the other damage from the tree accident has in her opinion healed 100% (original MRI read missed an LCL sprain... what the f**k were these doctors smoking!) 4) I'm not all that young and yeah, ligament reconstructions work better on younger folks. Hi, Mike. As I think I mentioned to you before I have a full PCL tear from a tibial plateau impact as well, maybe 15 years ago now. FYI, I also did not get surgery, and played a lot of sports (some snowboarding, but mostly lots and lots of very competitive ultimate frisbee), and just from having excellent leg musculature had no problems for a long time. My knee was quite lax, and I could do the party trick of shifting my shin forwards and back in relation to my knee, but I had no problems with running, cutting, sprinting, or snowboarding, with regards to athletic performance or pain. However, after 8-10 years, things started wearing down in there - I guess all the sliding around of the tibia started grinding stuff around in there, my knee would sometimes lock and refuse to straighten, I would get a ton of pain for a day or two after tournaments, and in general it started to really negatively impact my life. (I'd play sports one day and then have too much pain to navigate stairs for a day or two afterwards). Eventually I gave in and got surgery, and as a guy who generally doesn't like surgery when other methods will do, I have to say my life is significantly better than it was before. It is nice to not always have 5-10% of my brain subconsciously dealing with the knee (worrying about guarding it or dealing with pain) at all times. Just an FYI and another data point from a guy who had basically an identical injury and also had extremely strong quads and was able to play sports at a pretty high level with no problems or pain, but eventually wore down after a decade. Oh, P.S. - an example of what I mean by having my brain kind of subconsciously guarding my knee all the time: you say you're on the bike all the time; you may find that pedaling in a circle rather than just stomping down with your quads may cause some pain eventually. This is because pulling your foot backwards after the downstroke fires your hamstring, which will shift your tibia backwards since you no longer have a PCL, unless you also strongly contract your calf, which will hold the tibia forwards again. The human brain is really adaptable - after some time you just "figure it out" and the brain will shift a bunch of that crap to the subconscious, so that when you fire your hamstring your calf will kind of fire on its own anyways, but there will always be this little nagging thing hanging over your head all the time. One of the nicest things about getting the surgery was all these little naggy things went away and I don't have to think about them anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Thanks Ken! I will keep all these things in mind as I rehab and deal with this injury. I suspect if I were playing ultimate, basketball, soccer, shortstop, etc my surgeon may have recommended surgery now. The way I figure, at some point I'll get old and need it operated on anyway. My current thinking is that I should spend a season on on it and see what it is like, and see if I can keep it going long enough for medical science to improve upon current techniques :-) My physical therapist noticed that I already show many of the compensation patterns typical of someone who has been without a PCL for more than a year. Which makes me wonder, if it was sufficiently frayed before the accident that it was failing to perform the proprioceptive parts if its job, but was still sufficient to keep the tibia from moving. LOL at the party tricks - I can visibly move my tibia by hand but it takes a firm grip - can't do it via other means! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelc Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 The point my surgeon, a personal friend, made to me reagrding the pcl repair is that for 50-60% of people undergoing the surgery the outcome is no better than what I have now in terms of joint laxity and prospective further meniscus damage. I have a complete rupture of the PCL. Essentially he sees the risk of undergoing the procedure as higher than not having it. New Zealand has a very high rate of knee injuries due to the rugby culture and the surgeons here get lots of practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 The point my surgeon, a personal friend, made to me reagrding the pcl repair is that for 50-60% of people undergoing the surgery the outcome is no better than what I have now in terms of joint laxity and prospective further meniscus damage. I have a complete rupture of the PCL. Essentially he sees the risk of undergoing the procedure as higher than not having it. New Zealand has a very high rate of knee injuries due to the rugby culture and the surgeons here get lots of practice. Sounding pretty similar to what the surgeon I saw had to say... at least in terms of potential for meniscus damage. She was positive she could improve the laxity situation, but still did not want to operate on me unless a good solid attempt at rehab is unsuccessful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelc Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 the good news is that mine is coming along pretty good. I have been cycling on the road and on the wind trainer and I am back to running about 25km's a week. The only thing which gives me stress is if I plant my right foot and twist. No more soccer! I will definitely be on my board in a few weeks. Injury was around first of march. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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