Are the new 700 T boots actually SOFTER/more flexible than the 325 T?

[snovvman]

I spent most of the morning reading old threads on this subject, and looked at YYZCanuck's site (excellent information, thanks). I was not able to find anything conclusive. Some of the pages I looked at:

http://www.deeluxe-jp.com/product_alpine.php

http://www.deeluxe-hardboots.com/

http://www.yyzcanuck.com/deeluxe_boot_comparison.htm

http://www.yyzcanuck.com/E_tech_article08.htm

Everything "on paper" seems to indicate that the 700 is stiffer. And although the 700 seems to share the same plastic hardness as the 325, I presume its structural design makes it more rigid.

At the same time, I read many threads with people describing how the 325 is relatively stiff, perhaps STIFFER than the 700.

I am looking for an all-mountain/freecarve boot to replace my 224 and was eyeing the 225, but I would buy the 700 if it is not much stiffer.

Your input/information would be much appreciated.

[Hans]

I should buy this years model then. The new red/white 2009/2010 model will have stiffer plastics. I find it a very nice freecarve boot. That was also the complaint of the racers that the stock 700 is too flexible. So they made the model for next year somewhat stiffer so that will be more like a raceboot.

[snovvman]

Hans, thanks for your response.

I found this thread started by you:

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=16933

The information was helpful. Thanks again to YYZCanuck as well.

It would appear that while the 700 has more forward flex (softer), but the lateral flex is less (stiffer) than the 325. Would you agree?

[Hans]

Never rode the new 325, only the former red 325 ones and they were rather stiff. Don't know about the lateral stiffness. I only just ride them, the only thing I know is that these 700's are almost perfect for me (sometimes too wide on the upper shell but managed that with shintronics).

[wjholm]

I rode the 325T all last season then switched to the 700T (purchased during the spring sales) I ended up selling the 325 T's last fall - I liked the 700's much more. IMO, I found the 325's too stiff for my riding. Also felt that the 700 to have a much more progress flex and the cuffs are a little higher = more support.

Now, to confuse things, I use the red BTS springs on the 700's ......had blues on my 325's. 700's with reds are still softer flexing.

Struggled with some serious shin bang this year, but I've got'em dialed now and I'm very satisfied.

Ultimately - IMO the 07-08 325T is stiffer than the 700T - I've ridden them back-to-back.

[snovvman]

I rode the 325T all last season then switched to the 700T (purchased during the spring sales) I ended up selling the 325 T's last fall - I liked the 700's much more. IMO, I found the 325's too stiff for my riding. Also felt that the 700 to have a much more progress flex and the cuffs are a little higher = more support.

Now, to confuse things, I use the red BTS springs on the 700's ......had blues on my 325's. 700's with reds are still softer flexing.

Struggled with some serious shin bang this year, but I've got'em dialed now and I'm very satisfied.

Ultimately - IMO the 07-08 325T is stiffer than the 700T - I've ridden them back-to-back.

Thanks very much for your insight. I presume the flex you describe is forward/ankle flex? What about lateral flex and the practicality of using the 700T as an all-mountain boot? Please comment. Thanks again.

Edit: Now that I'm thinking about the 700, I suppose I have to get over the white/red color combination...

[wjholm]

Hadn't considered this until this thread. With the higher cuff the 700's seem more supportive overall - with forward flex the most obvious difference. Where I consider lateral flex a problem is bindings - the narrow base provided by boot-binding interface results in much more give than the boot alone - think about it and try moving your boots while mounted in the bindings. The boot certainly plays a role, but there is alot of movement here regardlesss.

That said, I think they are at least equal in terms of lateral stiffness, if pressed, I'd say the 700's are a little stiffer in this realm. Hence my problems with shin bang - experienced this on lateral aspect of my shin over lower fibula. The problem seem to be a hot-spot from the lower cuff inside the boot. Of course, this is more a fit and not a stiffness issue that I did not have with the 325T's.

I have experience with the UPZ's as well - I am a gear junky!!! I caught the carving bug about 4 years ago and really went nuts. The UPZ's were my first boots and VERY stiff. There liners left alot to be desired, but very nnice boots. Again, too stiff for me - I was just starting to carve well with them and the change to a more relaxed boot helped alot.

Finally, the only real test is ridin' for yourself. I ended up buying three differrent boots until I found bliss with my 700's. My opiion is worth every penny you're paying for it - Nothin!!!! But, having experience with all three, ratiing stiff - to - soft (on my scale): UPZ, 325T, then 700T.

I might add, my riding style is tailored to my home hill. I live on a hill in WI, only about 800' vert. Often narrow and icy. With devoted practice I've become pretty fair - I can layout heel and toe side consistently. Without going full-EC(not sure how those guys extend and hold the edge - impressive) I can't get any lower - everything is dragging, both hands both sides. I recently spent some time in CO riding with accomplished locals. Compared to them, I tend to carve aggressive short radius turns that slow my speed. I'm not as fast to the bottom and with gray hair blooming I don't let it fly as fast as some, I'm slowing down in my old age. My flexy boots and metal boards really favor this style. It is all so subjective!!!!!

Long winded ....I hope it helps????

[snovvman]

....I hope it helps????

Cheers wjhom, many thanks for taking the time to write and sharing your experience and observations. I find your words very helpful. I can see how the higher cuff would result in more applied leverage when one goes to bend the boot, I can also understand how the boot/binding interface can contribute to lateral play.

Having read everything, I am puzzled how the high-end boot (advertised as "racing") can be less stiff than the mid-range model. I believe it, I just don't understand it. I've read posts where some suggested that the flexibility may change at different rates along the Deeluxe line as temperature drops, yielding a stiffer overall 700T. Since all of Raichlee/Deeluxe are made from similar materials, I don't see how that can be true.

All of the marketing propaganda talks about the 700 being stiff/race, even Bomber's FAQ states so, but most everyone's real-life experience seems to be the opposite.

I started out looking for a new all-mountain, freecarve boot that will allow me to spend more time in the hard-boot fun:

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25397

Currently on 224s, I thought 225s might be the right choice. I was also interested in the 325, but since Bomber is out of my size, and now seeing that they are [relatively] stiff, and that the 700T is actually less stiff than the 325, I am wondering if the 700 can be my new all-mountain boot? The asymmetrical flex is interesting too--color scheme notwithstanding.

How did you resolve the shin-bang?

Thanks again.

[wjholm]

I spent some time with a boot fitter.....fortunately, not much money - they weren't much help. As mentioned, all pain was on the side/lateral aspect of my shin and only on the front (right - I'm goofy) boot. A result of the pressure exerted during heelside turns.

Spent some time searching this forum - used an idea involving a plastic shield (havested from a sacrificed garbage can) bonded to the outside of my liner over the painful area. (Sorry, I couldn't locate the thread...with time I'm sure I could find it again.) This eliminated the hotspot on the lower part. I was still having pain at the top where the cuff ends - I extended the shield to near the top of the liner. These changes and the initial grinding by the boot fitter helped.

The most significant change came with stance and binding adjustments. I made my stance wider by about an inch and decreased the front disk from a 6deg to a 3deg. I also turned the cant disk to align with the binding - so I removed lift and added cant (I may be confusing terms here - cant vs. lift) The result was to line the boot cuffs up with my bow legs; didn't consider myself bow-legged until this experience.

I share your confusion over the "racing" monicker assigned to the 700T's. Yes, and the color sux too - both new and old. The thing that compelled me to give them a try was another thread here which alleged the same thing I found to be true - the 700 seems to be more flexible.....less stiff with a more progressive pattern (getting stiffer as it flexes). This and the BTS work great for me. I like the relaxed feel that holds you when you load them up. I also find the higher cuff more secure and comfortable; though, it is only about 1/2 inch it makes a difference.

Again, the crux of the problem is that you won't know 'til you try. And I think that requires more than a couple runs. These things are so subjective and individual styles and riding vary greatly.

Very glad to help - for what it's worth:confused:

Bill

[snovvman]

Very glad to help - for what it's worth:confused:

Thank you again sir. I think I will pull the trigger on the 700T.

[Erik J]

I just tried on the 700T yesterday. Really nice boot. It was way softer than I thought it would be - so much so that I personally wouldn't touch it without a BTS installed. I don't mean that in a negative way - that would just be my preference.

IMO it would make a great all mountain boot.

[Bobby Buggs]

Eric and others, did the 700 fit the same as the sb2xx or 3xx as far as shell size goes

[wjholm]

Very Close!!!