BlueB Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 To cut the long story short, I recently had an extreamely successfull lesson with a guy. He signed up for a private hour and extended for another (already bonus to me). I took him from a never ever to the rudimentary intermediate sliding turns. He'll definitelly come back for more and is willing to learn h/boots too. To the point: At the end, he pulled a bunch of notes out, as a tip (about 30$ from what I could see), which I politely declined. In my mind I have no doubt - I do whole instructig thing out of love for the sport, oportunity to pass the knowledge, and to promote the alpine a bit. I get paid for it (kinda - it covers the gass and the pass), so I don't expect or need anything extra. Now, by refusing the tips, am I actually ruinning the things for my fellow, full-time instructors, who definitely need every penny to make the ends meet? Should I have accepted, for the sake of industry's standard practices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_roboteye Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I would say if someone is going to go to the point of pulling out some cash, they are very serious about their intentions. In some cultures, it may be considered ill mannered to not accept a gratuity when it is offered to you. I've been in the position of giving a sizable grat, and the guy refused it. I asked him if he had a wife, or young kids. When he said yes, I said take the money and spend it on your kids and get them something they really wanted, but you maybe said no to before. They guy took the money. I trusted that the guy did what he said he was going to do. BTW, it's ghey ski week in Whistler right now, maybe this guy booked too late to get a room in Whistler and had to settle for Vancouver? He likes you for your fine "qualities" later,:lol: Dave R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Politely decline, once, if you must. More often than not, they will insist, and then take the cash. To refuse is, IMO, stupid. They ar eoffering you cash as thanks for your services. Take it and thank them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Now, by refusing the tips, am I actually ruinning the things for my fellow, full-time instructors, who definitely need every penny to make the ends meet? Should I have accepted, for the sake of industry's standard practices? I feel that way. I rely heavily on tips. I don't know of many instructors that refuse them (well, now I know of one ;) ). What is the harm in taking it? It does not depreciate your love for what you do, it shows that you have high value for what you do. Do I, or my fellow full timers everywhere love the sport any less than you do? Probably not, but for us, it pays the bills, so tips are important. My guess is that the guy is the kind of guy who naturally gives tips. You may not have changed this. OTOH, he may now think that tipping an instructor is not necessary. Who knows? If it is that important to you to show the love of the sport without monetary gain, next time take the tip and be gracious to the guest - then take the money and donate it to a good cause - snowboard related if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 If I recieve exceptional service I will leave an exceptional tip. If you were offered an exceptional tip you gave exceptional service. It is rare and wonderful to experience exceptional anything and an honor to reward it. Recieving or accepting a compliment is an art form onto itself. Ying and yang at work. You must be willing and able to recieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Instructors don't get paid enough to refuse tips. You're just making the ones who do take them look bad. Politely say thank you and don't make a scene out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I am not one that can easily afford to tip excessively. But I do anyway. If I learn something that saved me tons of time and risk of injury.. I tip excessively. and though I might not be able to afford it..and gulp when I think of other bills I have to pay... I feel you should pay what the service is worth. I am glad to tip a great instructor well. I'm also one not to tip a crappy instructor..... why??? Because the crappy instructors hear about the other good instructors getting big tips... then they are motivated to get the same tips.. and they start asking the good instructors about the progressions they teach their students. Sometimes this can make a crappy instructor into a better instructor...I used to teach and saw this happen in the Ski school dept. The possibility of getting a tip also makes staff behave better (The instructors suck up more whining from customers gratiously) and makes the employee client relationship more sound as the client also becomes an "employer" that pays part of what becomes the employees wage. The instructor is no longer just working for the mountain's hourly wage- he is also working now for the possibility of a bonus if he provides perceived exceptional service to the customer. So back to tipping... after I give someone a good tip he knows I put my money where my mouth is... If you want to keep good instructors in the business... tip the good ones... a lot. Or they will give up instructing and find something else to pay their bills. When I taught skiing for a 1000' vertical drop ski resort, if I didn't have private lessons (never got one for snowboard carving) and didn't get many lessons assigned... mostly skiing kids, I found that I could not make enough cash to pay my gasoline to get to and from work (I was- according to my tips- a crappy ski instructor). I was once the snowboard race coach for kids at Stratton and I did a great job with Mac and Marley Cloyes setting good foundations for their later riding and pounding riding safety into their heads.... later they podiumed in Nationals- I don't think I ever got tipped from Steven Cloyes their Dad. So even if you do a great job... you might not get tipped for the good things you do- in fact Mac Cloyes "borrowed" one of my collectible skateboards and never gave it back. I'd call that a really bad tipper. So take the tips when you can get them to make up for the ones that don't do the right thing. As a tipper I like tipping to show that someone gave me something intangible that I feel has real value. I drove a limo this past winter.... and while going over Vail pass on a Aspen to Denver run.. it started snowing... I had the foresight to load all the plane schedules onto my laptop and even though we had no EVDO broadband wireless network available- I was able to give my customer the needed information to re-route his flight out of Denver 90 minutes earlier so that he did not get stuck an extra day (He had already been delayed a day when the previous day's flight out of Aspen was cancelled). He was not expecting that kind of superior service- and it saved him losing a business deal and flying his family in less safe conditions. I also let that same customer use my laptop to watch movies of Aspen locals (Oakley's Uniquely) http://oakley.com/women/uniquely_movie on the drive down and give them tips where to book next year and where to eat- what runs have pow etc.. If tipping didn't exist.. likely I wouldn't have gone to the extreme of racking my brain to figure out what Limo customers need beforehand. He tipped me $200 cash in hundred dollar bills He felt good about it, I felt great about it. One other time while in college working as a valet at the most expensive french restaurant in Boston (1985), a guy was walking out of the restaurant with two women in fur coats. It was a torrential downpour outside. I asked him if he had valeted with me and he said no. I asked him where his car was parked (He was parked 6 blocks away) I was off my shift in 10 minutes. I told him. "If you give me your keys sir, I would be happy to get your car for you- there is no reason to put a damper on what was otherwise a perfect evening". I ran and got his car- came back soaked- drenched.. and expected no tip.... since he was too cheap to valet in the first place- he drove an older Ford Crown Victoria. He took one look at me and realized that would have been him... and if he was a wet dog with a "comb over" his two ladies might not be looking so fondly at him. He pressed a couple bills into my hand- didn't let the women see it. Six $20 bills. Nothing wrong with taking a tip. Just give back great ones where merited...and never stiff a guy if he does a great job... he will wonder what he did wrong all day long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 interesting JG. When I drove a Van for Colorado Mt Express in Vail, tips were our bread and butter. I went out and got a cowboy hat and always brought my mini cd player and a cd wallet of good tunes. Giving tourists as much inside info about what band was at Garton's, where to get a bucket of chicken wings or ribs with the locals on wednesday night, that kinda stuff. I'd offer to stop at the Liquor store on the way out of Denver for the ride up to summit county. " You can do that ? " of course I can. People love that kinda treatment. Willy's party bus to Vail. I'd make killer tips usually. $60-$100 a trip with 8 people in a van. the other day we had sunday lunch at brasilian BBQ joint, it's so good and a great deal. They calculate a 15% and a 18% tip for you on your bill, we left like 22%. almost forget the video <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFUDbOldMs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFUDbOldMs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 but I never turn down a tip.We as instructors are expected to dedicate ouselves and our professional education to a five month season(at best) and then to find other work to get by the rest of the year.Tips helped make that possible when I taught at Vail.I love to teach too,but I love my wife and kids and need to do my share to support them. I practice the Golden Rule ; "Tip unto others as you would have them tip unto you." It's just good Karma:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFluff Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 If starbucks has the nerve to just stick a can on the counter, and wants a tip after pouring my coffee, you better believe I'll take a tip after working hard to make somebody get the most from their lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 This is right up there with "Should I ride blacks?" or "Does anyone here besides me hate crowds?" Sorry Scott... couldn't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skully Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I do whole instructig thing out of love for the sport, oportunity to pass the knowledge, and to promote the alpine a bit. I get paid for it (kinda - it covers the gass and the pass), so I don't expect or need anything extra. Nobody get's into ski / snowboard instruction or coaching to get rich. Pretty much everyone who does it has a pretty deeply seated love of the sport. If they don't have that love of the sport, they don't end up staying in the industry for long. Accept tips graciously. You've earned them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave ESPI Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 You must be rich..... LOL send me the 30.00 and any other tips you dont want, because the tippers have been tighter than Scrooge this year. Instructors only get 8.00-10.00 a lesson, 15.00 if you are requested @ my place. Yes lessons are "expensive" as they run around 90.00 an hour. Most the people who ask about it, are shocked to learn how little we actualy make. but especialy since people really never know that we only make around 1/10th the price of the lesson, they assume we make more around 30.... which just isn't the case. I love my mountain, but it has been a big gripe for years about the lack of $ we make, but then again, I don't have to pay for a liftpass (savings of around 65.00) so I guess it ballances out in their mind. Don't expect a tip, and refuse it once out of politeness, but never twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMU Alpine Boarder Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Please forgive me, but this is gonna be a semi-hijack here.... I spent the first half of this winter working as an instructor at 2 small (and I mean SMALL) hills in the Chicago area... I ended up teaching about 35-40 lessons overall... Now I felt (and was told by supervisors) that I was above and beyond most of the other instructors in knowledge, service, appearance, and just about every other aspect... I would see my students advance faster and further than most the other instructors... I'm not trying to brag, as I am sure if I would be just average out west, maybe slightly above at a better hill in the Midwest... All that being said, I was only tipped FOUR times all winter... Seeing as I would get 1 lesson on a week night, and maybe 2 on a weekend/holiday shift, I lost money on the deal when it came to gas, food, and other expenses... I'm curious if a tip ratio like that is common in other places... Being in Chicago, I figured most people just didn't know that tipping was acceptable... After reading this however, I am curious if that's the norm elsewhere.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I have instructed for years and have never refused a tip. I am not in it for the money but the tips were nice for a pitcher or two of a fine ale at the end of the day. The way I think about it is if you are out to dinner have you ever known a waiter/waitress to refuse your tip? I will always remember my worst tip........guy paid for a three hour lesson and at the beginning showed me a folded $100 saying it was mine if he could ride at the end of three hours. He could ride and my "tip" was 1/2 of a $100. Didn't think to unfold it until the end of the day. I just wondered what happened to the other half.:AR15firin:AR15firin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I will leave an exceptional tip for exceptional service and I will not hesitate to tell the person why whatever the service may be. Take it. Play it down, be modest and appreciative. They appreciate what you offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 I had this one guy in his late 30's take a learn-to-ride private from me. He was one of the most naturally gifted beginners I ever had. He was making exceptionally quick progress, until about halfway through the 2 hour lesson he up and quit, frustrated that he didn't have it completely nailed. He gave me a $20 tip and left. That was my biggest and most confounding tip ever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 cleaned up, take it to e-mail, nothing to see here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Thanks Jack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Sorry to stir the pot, not riding, bored, voyeuristic tendencies etc. Thanks Jack, TT, and WW for the vids. Signing off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 I turned down one tip in 11 years of instruction pocket change.... best was over a grand for 5-7(?) days Great instructors get free trips with clients to all of the worlds best resorts...to be guides!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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