Seasons Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 Mud is spot on about the Fiber to epoxy/resin ratio element to this project. You will have to find the resin balance before application. Had a new board with a super long core shot from the top sheet in.Base and edges flawless. Hmm Must save board. Had a need for top sheet fitment just to hold core repair in place. Other than a Bumper sticker. Keep in mind this is B.B.(Before Bomber). Buying a Carving board was tricky.Now A.B. (After Bomber) life for the Carver is better. So I played with resin. Found slow dry flexi mix. Got 2mm Finish Carbon roll. (Finish carbon has one side done and leaves the bottom fiberous for adhesive or epoxy. It will only except so much resin.Keeps it simple.) Blue tape.Sand paper,Wheeny roller,metal Bakers Roller,Full board edge and lots of paper towels. There is a hole how too here...............It worked, and well.Never failed.Great conversation piece in the lift line. The pattern that was added did everything I had hoped for and I love carbon in Boards as result. BUT It was not fun. It was not clean work It took time.No it took more time than that even. The fact that I could have worked a few more hours and just got another Board has still not escaped me. If you are looking online at Carbon fiber Rolls with adhesive on the bottom I fear it is possible you my be looking at a cosmetic cover. Like the stuff The Boy Racers (Motor Cycle) put on or over there fenders on street bikes.This is not the stuff of structural or even Dampening value. Not attempting to make one feel bad or other wise.Am taking my time to write in hopes of keeping some one from wasting there's. Uhmm,well Happy Hollidays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valsam Posted December 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 As you can see on the link given from the e-bay seller it says that it not a cosmetic vinyl sheet but an actual carbon sheet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeho730 Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 As you can see on the link given from the e-bay seller it says that it not a cosmetic vinyl sheet but an actual carbon sheet! If you are referring to this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Real-Black-Carbon-Fibre-Sheet-60x30cm-2x2-twill-3M-Boat_W0QQitemZ230306500475QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM?hash=item230306500475&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1299%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 "This sheet is only 0.3mm thick, so it can easily be cut with normal scissors, or a sharp craft knife." I'm not entirely sure 0.3mm thick carbon sheet would impact much on torsional stiffness, but I guess someone knows better. I suspect this carbon sheet is mainly for cosmetic only. This looks better: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Carbon-Fibre-Sheet-1-8x350x150-mm-100-Carbon-Fiber_W0QQitemZ220265614669QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN?hash=item220265614669&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1299%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 It's got 1.8mm thickness and made for strength, not to mention the seller has thicker ones (up to 6mm), but it's short and rather narrow, I recon. And the seller doesn't seem to sell any sheet bigger than 370x170mm. Just my 2 cents.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valsam Posted December 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 I just noticed that the seller doesn't have longer sheets,i will need at least 90cm long and 17-18 wide and the cost will go up! And by the way what else do you guys think would work(cheap solution!) except carbon fibre! Maybe some kind of metal or plastic(i think that metal would cause the core to break as i have broken 3 boards where the bindings end,front toe, back heel). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 Did not miss link. Exactly not the CF to meet goal. Was off looking for product links.Came back and they are listed 4u. Reference: Not attempting to make one feel bad or other wise. Am taking my time to write in hopes of keeping someone from wasting theres. Happy Hollidays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyagt4 Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 Funny you bring this up, I'm just getting ready to do they same thing to an old board I have here as an experiment. I have one of the best carbon guys here in town, who is laying up a sheet of carbon for me. Plan on doing a sheet about .060 to .065 thick. I have some slow curing Hysol to glue it down with. Building a buck to support the board and retain it's camber, then vacuum bagging it as it cures. I'd use the autoclave, but it's way too busy there right now. We'll see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliekarr Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 A unique thing about fiber composites is that they are highly directional. Strength and stiffness come from the fibers, and the resin is just there to hold them in place. If you want to make the board stiffer longitudinally, you'll need more fibers running tip-to-tail. Fibers running side-to-side will add stiffness that you don't need, so that's dead weight. Torsional stiffness is pretty bad in a 0-90 laminate, so that will help only slightly. If you want torsional stiffness, you'll want your fibers running at +/-45 degrees. If you're buying a pre-laminated sheet, you'll need a very large sheet to make that happen (imagine rotating it 45 degrees, and then trimming off the corners). Carbon is best in tension, as noted in other posts, but it is almost as good in compression, and will have a strong effect if this mod is done properly. The idea is to transfer the loads of the board into the carbon skin. If you use a flexible or temporary adhesive (e.g. silicone), those loads will work to pry the sheet loose instead of stiffening the board. For the best improvement in torsional stiffness, I'd get some unidirectional carbon (dry fibers), and place them at +/-45 degrees. You'll have to sand the topsheet to get a good bond, so there's no going back. Laminate it with some good epoxy, and vacuum bag it if possible. It's a big, messy job, but it could make big improvements if done right. I was going to do this to my FP173, but I decided to get a Coiler instead. Haven't even thought about the Burton since then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valsam Posted December 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 The only issues I can see is it is cured FLAT. Your board is not. It is going to fight your camber and profile and try to flatten the board. PLUS it is going to try and delaminate as the sheet wants to be straight and the camber bent...... I guess that the ready sheet won't work because it doesn't have any camber in it and the best way to do this is the hard and sloppy way(resin -fiber -vacuum). So this means that other materials wont work either because they won't have camber in them too! I wanted an easier way to do this! Do the F2 Conshox have camber? And if they do how much? I mean how do they fit several boards? Because each board has a different camber and people in here say that they put them on other manufacture boards too and it worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 My Prior 4WD (2008 model) has 2 carbon stringers running tip to tail. Each stringer is about 2" wide. What exactly do these do for the board? I assume they just add some longitudinal stiffness, correct? Why the 2 stringers instead of a full sheet? Why not just make a slightly thicker core? To save weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valsam Posted December 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 My Prior 4WD (2008 model) has 2 carbon stringers running tip to tail. Each stringer is about 2" wide. What exactly do these do for the board? I assume they just add some longitudinal stiffness, correct? Why the 2 stringers instead of a full sheet? Why not just make a slightly thicker core? To save weight? And my Elan Ballistic has a hole layer of carbon under the top sheet and it still has the same camber that it had the day i bought it 8 years ago almost 2cm from the ground in the middle as for my other boards that are not carbon all of the seam flatten out! I haven't tried metal but carbon is way better than glass by far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekdut Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 I personally have ground over 100 Madd Race Boards on a grindrite (pink stone) with the P-Tex 4000 base... wouldn't wish that kind of work on anyone. Even with production sanders it is miserable work- takes forever and is deafeningly loud even with hearing protection. Haha, Mike D complained about that specifically when I sent him mine. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donek Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 And my Elan Ballistic has a hole layer of carbon under the top sheet and it still has the same camber that it had the day i bought it 8 years ago almost 2cm from the ground in the middle as for my other boards that are not carbon all of the seam flatten out!I haven't tried metal but carbon is way better than glass by far! Considering the fact that there are many different materials in every board and every manufacturer uses different processes to produce their boards, there is no possible way that Carbon fiber can be attributed with the longer camber life in your board. It could be something as small as the moisture level in the lumber when that particular board was pressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Considering the fact that there are many different materials in every board and every manufacturer uses different processes to produce their boards, there is no possible way that Carbon fiber can be attributed with the longer camber life in your board. It could be something as small as the moisture level in the lumber when that particular board was pressed. This thread started with the question.(Good One) Found and left the bench at home and made its was to,tag and bag,AutoClave,0.00mm?? Effects of Directional lay up w/CF.............and all of that is a good thing. As we all know, Certain materials will provide some general dianamics of desire.Some not so much.All posts here of value. Yet some where beyond all of that lies a builders process.The time in to understand inherent variables and to refine them.Dedication! In time the work is the Art. It all starts with the curiosity. And hopefully stays there. I too hope to see more inquiry and interest in solutions/products on Tune-Ability (IE Boards,Boots Binders. Passive or proactive) Gotta Pimp the Ride,Yoh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Moisture content matters. Just as in snow consistencey. Two grain matched sticks of wood out of the same tree will react to stresses differently if one is dry and one is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Boardski,:D Think I can get some good Board making product out of that Ruff cut in your barn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 There's some 1"x18" clear fir in there thats been drying for 20 yrs but it'll have nail holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cail Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Last i heard nano-carbon tubes could handle a compressive load, but it was difficult making one over a few (mu)m long.....?? can get them longer now (cm)... still expensive to grow them, then aligning them on a very large scale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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