SlalomSkater87 Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Hey all So I've been longboard skating and doing slalom skateboard racing for a few years now and this winter I've decided I want to learn to hard boot. I'm really stoked and I was hoping some of you guys can give me some advice. In your experience:how does carving compare to pumping and skating? Are there habits or motions I should try to keep or make sure I avoid? I know most people go from snow to pavement, I'm trying the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boarderboy Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 WaveChaser, WillyWhit, Gecko, et al., will really set you straight Big Edit Sorry, I forgot CHUBZ!! Stand by... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 You're going to fit in here very well. Excellent thread ensues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Wavechaser (Rick Floyd) has raced competitively on both Snow and Pavement so I'm sure he will add to this. I on the other hand am a enthusiastic (read slow) amateur racer on pavement and have never raced on snow. The hips turned forward stance that most people use for Tight Slalom will serve you well on the snow. My stance slaloming is very similar to my hardboot stance, I would recommend setting up your snowboard with binding angles as close to you skating foor positions as posible it will help. Look for a board with a Side Cut Radius (SCR) in the 10-11m range since you say you like pumping, Anything smaller and you are likely to blow turns out instead of railing them. I consider a normal day hardboot snowboarding to be akin to GS/SGS skating/high speed carving (25-35mph), the turns are there only to stretch you out over the hill and make it slower than riding a Downhill board. That said I have skated DH with Karl Floitgraf him on a GSboard and me on my drop through (7-8" of wheel base difference). He had no issues staying with us all day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinecure Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Where are you located slalom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlalomSkater87 Posted December 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Where are you located slalom? Greensboro NC during the semesters, Boston MA for a month, starting next week. Assuming I can write all these papers and pass all these finals. Gecko, that Floitgraf guy sounds fast. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Greensboro NC during the semesters, Boston MA for a month, starting next week. Assuming I can write all these papers and pass all these finals. Gecko, that Floitgraf guy sounds fast. :rolleyes: Floitgraf is slow...I know him...couldn't get out of the way of a frickin turtle. Don't take any advice from him SlalomSkater87 - it'll have you talkin' to yourself. -RF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlalomSkater87 Posted December 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 thanks for all the great advice Rick. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 thanks for all the great advice Rick. :P NP bro...don't want you to get involved with a BAD ELEMENT!! We don't have weasels and sausage kings in snowboarding. ;-) first lesson... THIS body position is GOOd on snow... ...and THIS one is not... ...no knock on Seb, he's doin' it right for skating...but we don't cross hands/arms over on snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boarderboy Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 I feel OK about putting forth my .02 from the land of Terminal InterMediocrity... First skate(board)ed in the mid '60's - (yes that's the mid 1960's) - just a couple years' removed from the 2x4's with split, metal roller skates attached. Think our most durable wheels were some kinda plastic with bits of crushed walnut shells in em. Polyurethane came much later, I believe ... ? Fast forward almost 50 years, and I'm now a 61-year-old guy with a 12-year-old son (don't ask.) I sort of longboard, while my son mostly RipStiks. I weigh too much to try his Ripper, but I suspect traditional boarding is a much better trainer for hardbooting. Due to chronic foot injury, I now wear mid-ankle hiking boots, even when I board. Not much sensation but lots of support. And I've noticed this - after 20+ years of hardboot snowboarding, I now skateboard with most of my considerable weight on my front, uninjured, foot. I suspect this would not have been the case pre-injury. But tying this back in to snowboarding - after skateboarding, and surfing some, too - my biggest challenge in learning to snowboard was resisting the urge to "steer," and to over-correct with my rear foot. For me at least - and this applies more to packed, Ice Coast "groom" than to powder - hardbooting is a front foot kind of thing. I'm hoping the Pro's will chime in on this - for training, you may want to try initiating, and maintaining, some skateboard carves utilizing more front-foot pressure than you might normally use. This could help prepare you for alpine boarding (?) By the way, I got your email, and Raleigh is home. I'd be delighted to ride with you second semester - maybe at (little) Appalachian, near Boone, where, I think BOL'er MelloYellow hangs out occasionally. According to the yellow fellow, there are 8 or 9 N.C. hardbooters. There's another Forum Member - K2SlopeSurfer - a softbooter maybe (?) who also lives in Raleigh. To my knowledge, formal hardboot lessons are nonexistent in the southeast. If you can't get true alpine lessons, you might want to try a softboot session with a good instructor - on a true powder or "packed powder" day. 1st few hours snowboarding are a pain in the ass on hardpack, and I mean that in the most literal way! So take your initial lesson in "ideal" conditions if you can! I'll be happy to set you up with a loaner "E Deck" and some bindings if you can find some size-appropriate hardboots. Ski boots aren't great, but are better than nothing. Happy, also, to pass on what little alpine knowledge I may have on-slope. Cheers and good luck to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 definitely don't do the swinging arms thing on the snow...I could never do that without swinging myself off course on pavement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlalomSkater87 Posted December 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 So I'm hearing a lot of helpful advice. Thanks guys I've never hard booted before but I have been on a traditional snowboard and what I noticed is I had to use my back leg to turn more than I am used to (in Slalom skateboarding you initiate your turns with the front leg). I'm thinking hardbooting might be easier for me because I am used to turning with my front leg. One thing that messed me up a lot in snowboarding is how much I am used to using my ankles for quick snaps. It's just instinct, but ever time I do that I would catch an edge and slam. Can that be useful or should I just teach myself to keep my ankles tight. Boarderboy, I should get plenty of experience in New England over the break so I shouldn't need to find a lesson in NC. I don't have access to a car in NC so if your ever going up and have a little extra space I'm right on your way (5 minutes off 40) in GSO. I'd love to come a long!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 You will find in the earlier stages of hardbooting, there is no turning going on. Your experience with snowboarding involves kicking the tail around and doing pivot turns. That's not what 99% of hardbooters do. Carving on an alpine deck is about setting the edge on the board, and letting it haul you around the turn. I don't know anything about slalom snowboard technique, but you're obviously going to have to get the basics of freecarving down. I think your image of hardbooting is slightly off, you're not going to be able to replicate slalom skateboarding on snow, it's just different. However, you will have an excellent compliment to slalom skateboarding, and you'll be able to have your carve crave filled year round. If you try to actively gyrate on a hardboot board the same way you do on a slalom deck, you'll end up trying to goose the board out of its carve, skidding and blowing your speed at best. Have you read the welcome center articles? The Norm technique, written by Jack Michaud will really give you a good idea why hardbooting is so different from slalom skating. First day you hardboot, if you don't have help..there's only one thing I can say from experience BEND THE KNEES As a slalom skater, you already know this. It won't feel the same in hardboots, force it. Don't get ski boots. Been there, done that, went against most of the advice. Makes knee bending way too hard. Hardboots, and only hardboots will let you bend your knees as they need to be. If you have to, buy the $120 Burton Factory Prime that everyone rags on. Spend your money on boots. Links of interest The Norm - http://bomberonline.com/articles/feel_the_carve.cfm Good video by BOL's own Snowytom - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boarderboy Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 email me when you get back into town. This season, as in most, my trips will be determined by the following equation, weather + $$ = boarding days. Will definitely try to make a trip work. And I'm all too familiar with I-40 and GSO. ... cheers, and take a good, formal hardbooting lesson in New England if you get the chance! BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 One thing that messed me up a lot in snowboarding is how much I am used to using my ankles for quick snaps. It's just instinct, but ever time I do that I would catch an edge and slam. Can that be useful or should I just teach myself to keep my ankles tight. Karl - hardboots will cure the flexed ankles thing. Let me know if you head to VT when you are home. I don't have any extra boots, but could set you up with a plate binding board for a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 didn't realize that was you....Karl...howz life in the south? If you didn't pick up else ware I broke my ankle this fall and am just being allowed back onto a skate board (and that's a fight) now, Snowboarding is a maybe for Feb/Mar BTW that day at Durfee Hill Road will always stand out for me as just how fast a Slalom board will go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 didn't realize that was you....Karl...howz life in the south? If you didn't pick up else ware I broke my ankle this fall and am just being allowed back onto a skate board (and that's a fight) now, Snowboarding is a maybe for Feb/Mar BTW that day at Durfee Hill Road will always stand out for me as just how fast a Slalom board will go... Thatz why I said above ... "Floitgraf is slow...I know him...couldn't get out of the way of a frickin turtle. Don't take any advice from him SlalomSkater87 - it'll have you talkin' to yourself." If we eventually get him to his first snowboard race I'm makin' sure the start ramp is super steep with a short tranny. :-) -RF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 K - don't know your foot size but these boots just got listed...great deal! http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22866 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 Thatz why I said above ... "Floitgraf is slow...I know him...couldn't get out of the way of a frickin turtle. I've been a bit distracted with a BIG job interview...it wasn't until after wards that realized the sarcasm in your post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlalomSkater87 Posted December 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 didn't realize that was you....Karl...howz life in the south? If you didn't pick up else ware I broke my ankle this fall and am just being allowed back onto a skate board (and that's a fight) now, Snowboarding is a maybe for Feb/Mar BTW that day at Durfee Hill Road will always stand out for me as just how fast a Slalom board will go... hey man All is well, I've been skating a lot. Just turned pro in slalom. I have a handful of big papers to write this weekend and then I come home which is why I've been thinking about hardbooting alot. Ankle sounds rough man, I know how it is. Wish you the best in getting better. If we eventually get him to his first snowboard race I'm makin' sure the start ramp is super steep with a short tranny. :-)-RF I guess I should change the name of the thread to "pay back's a bitch". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 hopefully I'll be skating my way back into shape...I lost nearly 4 seconds on a set course from the break Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 I was just chatting with Karl aka slalomskater and the dude is now PRO ! He'll be racing against the big guys next season. Gotta give some propers to Gilmour here for getting KArl and Bryan "Weasel" among some other boston kids to the next level of cone wiggling. Karl will be carving trenches in no time. and Karl, thanks for leaving those cones with Ken:biggthump quik vid from antrim nh 2007, JG calling the race <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLx81ZxVMLg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLx81ZxVMLg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Willy - sweet photo of Me and Karl in 2007 at Antrim! I learned a lot chasing him...maybe too much ;), got him twice this year in GS. I'm sure I'll help him out on snow and then he'll return the favor some time!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 I guess I should change the name of the thread to "pay back's a bitch". Yo - here's some payback for ya lad... Go to www.raceboarders.com, click the EBAY button at the top (save the search if you want)...brings up most gear on ebay. -RF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 K - here are some carving boot and binding deals on the bay...don't know your mondo size, but check the boots anyway... (grab these if you can - go about $150 max) http://cgi.ebay.com/Burton-Race-bindings_W0QQitemZ110319497995 (if either of these boots fit you, grab 'em - again about $150 max...got mine for $80) http://cgi.ebay.com/Burton-Reactor-Hardboots-Brand-NEW-27-5_W0QQitemZ120342826561 http://cgi.ebay.com/Burton-Reactor-Hardboots-Brand-NEW-27-0_W0QQitemZ120342829027 http://cgi.ebay.com/Burton-Race-Plate-Bindings-Alpine-Carving_W0QQitemZ140286900072 http://cgi.ebay.com/Burton-Race-Plate-Bindings-Alpine-Carving_W0QQitemZ140286898559 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.