local powder mafia sticks

[nils]

amen to that, this said, Osin is gone, and so is dynastar's snowboard division ( RIP) so the boards you have are orphans now... !

Nils

[Dr D]

I am hoping to get a similiar feel from my Dupraz (recent purchase)

PLUS I have opened a very definitely nonprofit orphanage for poor neglected OSIN and DYNASTAR shorty swallowtails!

Please donate to my habit, oops I mean the cause. need knows no season but prefers winter LOL

[Jrobb]

I sort of remember someone doing radical surgery to save a cracked 4807. Was that you?

Yes...I think. It went under the knife to soften up the tail and sink more in the Sierra cement we get. It was fine before the operation and the mod provided the results I intended but... once adding hb's and carving it up on the groom, my 200lbs (already too much for the 168) stressed my heelside tail and I got a horizontal crack at the apex of the cut. Seems my incision stretched into a less reinforced area of the board. It's still rideable but on injured reserve currently. I'm thinking of picking up some vacuum bag supplies and adding a layer or two of Carbon Fiber I got laying around to the tail to revitalize it.

We'll see how ambitious I get this winter. I just got a 192 Tanker for pow so I'm not missing much other than the novelty of that board. Pics approaching.

J

[BlueB]

Tanker 192 is great all-rounder and carver, but it doesn't even come close to my 4807 178 when the pow is concerned.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

what is the middle purple like board in your quiver..? a Nitro? of what year?

Nitro "pow188" early 2000s , like 2001 or 2 approx.

Mine is more blue than purple.

[Jon Dahl]

Several swallowtails on craigslist now, a 186 APO in Bend, Ore., a 176 Prior pow stick in Anchorage, AK., 168 4807 in Denver, and a Nitro 178 forget where...

[refried]

Don't tempt me

[Jon Dahl]

A couple of them are overpriced, but the APO 186 IS tempting! But $500 for a 168 4807?? You kinda have the market cornered, don't you??

[Dr D]

The OSIN is the early model with breakage problems FYI definitely not worth $500:cool:

[refried]

A couple of them are overpriced, but the APO 186 IS tempting! But $500 for a 168 4807?? You kinda have the market cornered, don't you??

I'm waiting for a Pogo

[Jon Dahl]

Caviar taste on a service station budget?

[refried]

Caviar taste on a service station budget?

No more service station, they closed it on me, on to bigger and better things, like septic systems :). Took a nice 6 month vacation, Still doing mechanical work on the side, Installing boat mooring anchors, and working on the radio towers on Orcas, a little bit of everything. much more fun, well maybe not the septic system stuff but it's fast easy money (and no where near as bad as it sounds).

[Jrobb]

...including post-op 4807.

Below material removed fitted back into place for reference. Should have located apex back 2" for better strength.

J

[Dr D]

Same deal with the k2? hows the ride?

[BlueB]

There are 3 shapes that come up on majority of swallies. They have slightly different

functions (in my mind) , so one should decide what is really required, before “surgery”…

Yellow one tries to achieve smooth independent tail flex, without changing the longitudinal flex pattern much.

Red one tries to reduce the surface area to the maximum, to enhance the nose float and relieve the pressure from back leg.

Blue one is a classic ST shape trying to compromise between the 2 above…

With the cut made on white 4807, do you feel you achieved more float at all, or just smoother tail flex?

On the side note, the end of the cut is always the critical point for cracking. Safest place to end it should be in the centre of the insert pack you use for rear binding. However, that might result in way too soft tail…

[Jon Dahl]

The tail shape is only a SMALL part of the picture. Nose shape, nose flex profile, nose rocker play a more important part in powder float than tail cut. Tail cut does help the tail to sink, as will taper. Swallowtail tail shape changes, to a degree, how the board turns at speed. If you look at a Nitro tail, you can see it is designed as a moderate speed pow gun. Look at a Phenix, it has a tail for higher speed riding. Cut tail w/o proper nose does not equal good powder weapon, at least when we are talking modifying a twin tip freeride board. You CAN change how it rides to a degree, but it comes up short anyways. My $.02 American, based on a few years of playing with this.

[Dr D]

What I really like about the 4807 ride is the individual tail flex it actually gives the board the feel of a round bottom side to side. I can surf it and never feel the flat base as I transition from edge to edge. I think the tails flex at a 45 to edge instead of a 90 if that makes any sense. each tail tip flexes toward the centerline of the board as it flexes linearly. I don't notice the tail in powder so much but the huge soft long rocker boat hull nose sure helps:biggthump

[nils]

yes jon is right

Modifying an existing board with a given flex pattern will never give it the powder ability of a true ST, at least it will help sinking the tail, and might give it the " fin" effect that the cut tail gives at speed.

The most difficult part to design in a ST is definitely the flex, i have had interesting conversations with kafi from Swellpanik, as well as Seb Perret from Phenix on the topic: the outline, especially on kafi's boards has not been changing over the last 20 years too much: he has changed them by a few mm here and there, same goes with the tail cut away shape: very small mods in the last two decades. When you meet someone on the snow with one of his boards, only the decals and design of the top sheet can tell you if its a newer gen. The flex, however, is the part where things have improved much: the way the tail works, the feet part, and the nose work with the rest is very typical of the philosophy behind it: it does make the board good for the terrain it is designed for, and also superior to many others because of choices on flex and torsion distribution. They chose stiff flex pattern basically with very flat noses to fight pushing snow during turns and "reflatting" the board on the snow quick for floatation after the turns.

In that field for example, the nitro pow that i have tried, or the pogo shaman for example are very different: the flex pattern is softer and those boards ride very differently to the swellpanik or phenix which are stiffer for greater speeds without too much shaking or bump disturbance. On the contrario, those two boards will give out less of a surfing feeling at cruise speed that the shaman gives incredibly ( floating smoothly down the line feeling ).

This said, choosing a board for ST tail feeling would have to be, IMO , depending on its flex and nose behavior more than its shape. I'm not sure its usefull to cut away a short board such as a 167 because the flex distribution pattern is on a short length, but might be working on a 178-185 board.

Nils

[Jrobb]

With the cut made on white 4807, do you feel you achieved more float at all, or just smoother tail flex?

On the side note, the end of the cut is always the critical point for cracking. Safest place to end it should be in the centre of the insert pack you use for rear binding. However, that might result in way too soft tail…

Blue, it definitely softened the tail flex. I always felt the board was not well balanced...tail way stiff, nose wayy soft. To get the tail softer pre-operation I moved bindings forward but that just overloaded the nose. I've been told the 178 would have been a better suit for my weight but I didn't have the option of the 178 at the time so I made lemonade. I just rode it too hard on the groom because I really liked how it carved. It worked great for a whole season in softies.

Float, it also helped the float a bit and though I could ride it stock with a more centered stance I was even more comfy on it as it is now. Bottom line it was designed to have the cutout Osin gave it. 2" further back I'd bet money that it would have been fine.

Re: end cut, I'd be terrified to put it anywhere near the inserts. My first homeade was the Eldorado. I decided on 5" from inserts and it worked on the Eldo but I never put HB's on it and hadn't rode it very hard either. It's my early season beeter but the cut did improve its powder riding ability 100% no rear leg burn ever. The Eldo is also way more flexy overall and in the tail than the 4807 and I think that plays into the end cut location equation as well.

It was an experiment and it worked but needs a few tweaks.

J