Belch Village

[Speedzilla]

If you boycott the event then the terrorists have won. ;)

Really, Karl has some good points. You guys were'nt going to race anyways. No point in putting the USASA and it's members in a bad light with WV.

My guess is that if we (carvers) show up at Welch in small numbers and play nice, no one will say anything. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

It may however, be a good idea to find a new location for MES. Maybe a road trip to Granite Peak?

[Scuff]

People will blindlessly go down there not knowing or not caring and just ride like it never happened.

And what really DID happen? If you know, please share..

Was it one event, was it many events? Or was it really just one grumpy

old lady as the rumor suggests?

The "community" said "Sucks for you guys." when it came down to it.

No.. as I understand it, the community wrote e-mails, some of them positive, some of them nasty, people phoned, there were meetings.. and the brick walls of communication were built up higher and higher because Welch didn't want to deal with it. If someone doesn't want you around anymore, it doesn't seem logical to me to keep yelling at them louder.

Especially if they will not clarify what the problem really is.. Eh?

Season pass holders shouldn't have much reservation about boycotting Welch after the unfriendly welcome they received last year.

I do take issue with calling a boycott of an event based on (the issues I stated.) It's like saying "I'm boycotting the ski challenge this year."

I can't imagine a reason why Welch would associate a junior race event with the extreme carving events.

I hope the carving community isn't dead..

MUD: Guess what?.... I'm growing a beard! Yeah..

[Scuff]

Granite Peak sounds good!

Spirit might be closer..

[Speedzilla]

I can't believe Karl is going to boycott the Ski Challenge this year.

[Scuff]

I can't believe Karl is going to boycott the Ski Challenge this year.

Oh yeah.. You better believe it! ;)

Bindings came in a few weeks ago..

I'm itching to get out and ride with all ya'll.

[oldkey]

As the parent of a junior racer, Welch is the perfect racing spot. Parents, grandparents, family members can watch the racers from the comfort of the bar if necessary and the safety of the riders (on extremely cold days) is secure with somewhere to warm up quickly. Within 1.5 hours of the Twin Cities, it doesn't really get much better.....and the kids also get NASTAR times.

As Karl notes, please leave these hard working, good (many National Champions are located here in MN) and energetic junior racers out of this mythical issue....not racing at Welch would be a big loss.....and for what?

For every angry adult carver there are 15 appreciative kids for what Welch offers. Please let us have our fun and just find a new hill.....and cause.

We look forward to riding with you at Buck on Sunday mornings.

BTW - the kids really enjoy meeting and riding with our local adult carvers. We believe that along with numerous other lessons, Karl and Troy are teaching these kids a life long passion for snowboarding - a life skill if you will. Riding with the adult riders gives them the sense that they can snowboard forever.....and we hope they do. Thanks to those of you that show up and encourage them.

www.thegteam.com

www.patrickhanna.net

[powell1.8]

A boycott was just a thought, not an order. I don't think I'm the bad guy here, but maybe.

You're right in saying that I haven't been to a race, yet, but I don't think that's the issue. I really haven't felt ready to race, sorry.

Race at Welch, I won't hold it against you. Karl, I think the work you and your team are doing is very impressive, very respectable, and should not be jeopardized in any way.

That being said I still think it's complete BS that Welch having made a choice to basically tell our little community that we are not welcome to ride as we see fit at their establishment is still allowed to host races.

I guess it's not apples for apples on riding style and equipment, but it seems very close to me, I'm not a racer though. I do feel like our gear and riding style is better suited to racing than other styles, and our presence helps promote hardbooting and influence the future of the sport, racing or not. That was really my point.

Sorry to blow your feathers off. That was not my intention.

[MUD]

For every angry adult carver there are 15 appreciative kids for what Welch offers. Please let us have our fun and just find a new hill.....and cause.

I just hope other hills don't follow their lead.

I don't know what to say other than this statement pisses me off a little. I'll leave it at that.

[MUD]

Since I am not so good at the multiple quote thing:

Karl: Beards = cool! What bindings did you get? I have a Virus boardercross board that I am DYING to get out on, bought it too late last year.

OK, here is the deal.

We don't really know what happened. I do know a statement I made was being used against us (something about moving on to ruin another hill). It sounded like multiple people where complaining, including the ski patrol, to the management. As far as I know, this was ONLY regarding the weds group, but was being used for us as a whole.

Karl has a good point, the nasty emails sent last season did us NO good (I actually laughed when I read your mention of it Karl). They really closed the door for us I think. I talked with a gentlemen there a month ago or so, he still sounded aggravated.

When I was talking about "the community", I was referring to snowboarding as a whole. I talked with some old friends of mine about this situation. They are either shop owners or where shop owners around the cities. What they basically said was. Because we are such a niche market and no one carries hardboot gear, we have no leverage for anything.

1. The ski areas are going to have us on a short leash because we are such a small group that they would rather get rid of us than loose other customers.

2. The race organizers are not concerned with us because not many of us race and they want to hold there races at as many resorts as possible to give the racers variety and pull in racers that live close to some areas and not others.

3. The shops don't care because we are not really their customers. They are not going to move their comps because they don't hold races, they hold jib fests and such.

So there you go, this is where we are. Personally I think if we give them space and are only there in groups of 2 or less they may ease off.

I cross my fingers because I really enjoy riding there.

[Speedzilla]

Doug, I totally understand. I'm frustrated with this whole thing as well. However, I do believe that this thing could just blow over, and I certainly don't anticipate it happening at any other ski area.

Like I posted previously, I think we need to pick a new area for MES this year.

It's interesting that only a couple years back, Leigh (owner of WV) approached us all on the hill and said how much he appreciated us bringing our group out. Apparently having 30+ people show up and spend $45+ each on an otherwise dead weekday isn't in their best interest anymore.

I'm not exactly sure how this all transpired, but I was thinking about last year's MES and how the conditions were somewhat poor. The snow just wasn't holding up, and we did track up the runs in record time. Still, the runs weren't dangerous after we had tracked them up, unlike when they pull a race course and leave ruts big enough to swallow a 12 year old.

I'm guessing the carvers managed to ruffle the wrong person's feathers that day and/or another day. I think this "ban" is personal and has no actual safety reason behind it. Like I said before, we are still very welcome at other areas.

[MUD]

Doug, I totally understand. I'm frustrated with this whole thing as well. However, I do believe that this thing could just blow over, and I certainly don't anticipate it happening at any other ski area.

Like I posted previously, I think we need to pick a new area for MES this year.

It's interesting that only a couple years back, Leigh (owner of WV) approached us all on the hill and said how much he appreciated us bringing our group out. Apparently having 30+ people show up and spend $45+ each on an otherwise dead weekday isn't in their best interest anymore.

I'm not exactly sure how this all transpired, but I was thinking about last year's MES and how the conditions were somewhat poor. The snow just wasn't holding up, and we did track up the runs in record time. Still, the runs weren't dangerous after we had tracked them up, unlike when they pull a race course and leave ruts big enough to swallow a 12 year old.

I'm guessing the carvers managed to ruffle the wrong person's feathers that day and/or another day. I think this "ban" is personal and has no actual safety reason behind it. Like I said before, we are still very welcome at other areas.

I agree.

I think the main person that has the problem with us is either an employee or a very good friend of the WV people (the ski patrol I talked too about it thought it might even be the owners daughter).

BRING ON THE SNOW!!!!!!!!

[Scuff]

SPEEDY: Very well said! I agree with you on all points.

powell1.8: Greg: Hey - No worries man. I appreciate your enthusiasm to

"Stick it to the Man" but, my first impression was this analogy:

' If an older brother crashes the family car after a night of partying, is it right to blame his little brother? ' -

Makes more sense that your intent was for a statement and lost revenue at the establishment.

I really enjoy riding at Welch, and it's a great venue for the MWES.. but if I were a season's pass holder, I would

not be re-newing either. Totally agree with you that dis-allowing carving for some but

holding races for others does seems like a double-standard.

WE understand this, but I don't think that Welch is connecting-the-dots between the two groups at all.

I agree with making a statement and keeping the lines of communication open.. but planning a

counter-offensive.... eh.. maybe isn't going to bring us back to open arms and warm fuzzies....

( I like warm fuzzies.... not cold pricklys )

MUD: No doubt we hold little stock with local retailers..Many shops have been appathetic at best,

and (MOST) IMO have really not been part of the "community" for years. I view the "community"

mostly as the people involved. We should probably make it a point to extend this title to include

the venues to which we are welcomed, and the few shops do support carving, give us tune-ups, and still sell us wax.

*Shaking head* This is sad.. We preview runs, spot each other when they drop-in, and

go out of our way to make sure our turns are not affecting others. I think we've all been darn-good ambassadors for the sport!!

I'm also frustrated - feeling unwelcome because someone cried what appears to be an unsubstantiated "foul."

To this, I say Booooo!.. (That's a thumbs-down "Booooo."- Not a Halloween "Booooo" that is way-different. )

We could use some snow right now..

Virus SBX board - Oh no... there goes the neighborhood. : )

I got some F2 bidings- curious to see how they match up after years on the Burton Plates.

[MUD]

Virus SBX board - Oh no... there goes the neighborhood. : )

I got some F2 bidings- curious to see how they match up after years on the Burton Plates.

I can't wait......

It will be interesting to see what you think of the F2's. I am in the market for another set and have been leaning that way.

One last word on the WV thing, them I am going to take a breather........

The people that seemed to be complaining about us (Wednesday group) looked to be retired folks (didn't like the ruts). I wonder if WV is not being careful with them as they see them as a HUGE custom base in the near future.

If this is their thinking, I could see where they are coming from. These folks stay WELL away from a hill that has had a course and they avoid weekends.

Just a thought.

[Hudson]

I've had some e-mail communication with Welch regarding this issue and from what I can gather, there is no "ban". Here are their exact words:

"Thanks for inquiring as the carving issue has been embellished. Carving is allowed but we have had a few issues with “extreme” carving followed by “attitudes” from some of the individuals. Thus, customers complained to us, we spoke with the carvers, and some of the attitude is what made the issue explode. If everyone gets along and carvers don’t leave big ruts or almost run into people, or cop attitudes when someone says something etc., we usually don’t say anything and everyone goes along, happy as can be. That is the way we would like to see it. Everyone respecting everyone else on the slopes at any given time. Safety is out biggest concern as I am sure you are aware. We would rather put our time and effort into making this a great place to ski and snowboard than time in the court room defending ourselves from someone’s injuries due to slope conditions or collision."

It's somewhat ridiculous that ALL carvers got singled out like this, but maybe they are changing their tune here. I'm not happy with how they have handled this, as we all know if a jibber pissed off a customer or a group of customers, they wouldn't have even thought about banning the whole lot of them.

My guess is, they thought the "carvers" were limited to this small group of people that had the initial issue and thought they could just be passive aggressive and ban "carving" to get rid of these individuals. Little did they realize that we are a stronger group.

I have asked them to come out and declare a policy and suggested that they stay in line with every other ski area and just declare the policy is simply ....stay in control.

Looking forward to riding, whether my money is spent at Welch or else where. Got my new board ready to go and looking forward to meeting some of you this season.

[Scuff]

Got my new board ready to go

Oooh - What did ya get?

[powell1.8]

I contacted Welch one last time to feel out the situation, before I asked for a refund, and was plesantly surprised at the response. It really does sounds like if we watch the snow conditions, to prevent large ruts, and keep our "bad attitudes" in check, we'll all get along just fine.

I was even asked to stop in and introduce myself and talk about the situation. Hopefully, that's a good thing.

I think we're still going to be under close watch, but that really just gives us a chance to prove we can all get along.

[MUD]

I contacted Welch one last time to feel out the situation, before I asked for a refund, and was plesantly surprised at the response. It really does sounds like if we watch the snow conditions, to prevent large ruts, and keep our "bad attitudes" in check, we'll all get along just fine.

I was even asked to stop in and introduce myself and talk about the situation. Hopefully, that's a good thing.

I think we're still going to be under close watch, but that really just gives us a chance to prove we can all get along.

Sounds like a nice change. I KNOW we can behave.