No Fall Snowboarding

[Jon Dahl]

Just picked up this book, No Fall Snowboarding, by Danny Martin, when I was at Powell's Books in Portland. I think this is a real breath of fresh air for the soft boot world, based on real common sense and human biomechanics. The author is AASI level 3, teaches at Vail, but doesn't teach the accepted AASI way. His method is based on balance. Balance is central to every sport, especially martial arts. I won't spoil the book for you, but I will share what I found most interesting. First, his natural balanced position. Second, shoulder steering (raise and lower, not twist the body). Third, stance width determined by natural walking stride. Fourth, stance angles. Duck NOT recomended. Rear foot zero to wherever feels natural, front 20 to 40 degrees, based on personal biomechanics, not the flavor of the moment. Also, carved turns as the desired norm. I don't know that this is pushed, but it is mentioned as what is desired. Finally, and first in the book, a lot of off slope pre-first trip preparation strapped to the board to burn into memory what you are supposed to do on-slope. And a lot of emphasis on how this leads to a better first experience, by not falling, due to the methods used, and the pre-preparation. Anyone who has any sports/martial arts experience will see the wisdom of his methods, as will anyone who spent hours strapped in burning into memory what to do the first time out.

[carvedog]

Just picked up this book, No Fall Snowboarding, by Danny Martin, ..........

Finally, and first in the book, a lot of off slope pre-first trip preparation strapped to the board to burn into memory what you are supposed to do on-slope. And a lot of emphasis on how this leads to a better first experience, by not falling, due to the methods used, and the pre-preparation. Anyone who has any sports/martial arts experience will see the wisdom of his methods, as will anyone who spent hours strapped in burning into memory what to do the first time out.

Sounds like he and I have a lot in common. Particularly the strapped in to the board pre-trip warm up. I do this a lot with kids, not just pre-first trip. It is fun for them. Gets them pumped and they get used to the finer balance.

I will look for it Jon. THX.

[Rob Stevens]

Thanks for that Jon.

Sort of sounds like CASI... Sort of not.

I like the stance width determined by stride. Duck not reccommended? If your stance is based on personal biomechanics, I wouldn't rule it out, but I'm going to get the book and read into it further.

Shoulder steering sounds like rotation, but it seems like that's not the case. More like flexion to get on edge / sidecut.

[Steve Prokopiw]

imho,espescially for cautious adults.I knew Danny while sharing a locker row with him.A great,common sense oriented guy.I think many of us career instructors share common philosophies by putting the reality based needs of our guests first.We may create our own prep, drills,practice environment etc ,etc and even have our own labels for those things, but it is all based on achieving the same end;customer safety and satisfaction.Danny if you're out there,congrats on the book.

[Dave ESPI]

I actualy am looking forward to reading this.

I had heard it was going to be out "someday" from a buddy a year ago, so I started saying my "Best trick is NOT FALLING" as a bit of a joke, and then later photoshopped a pic. Good to see a real actual book based on the concepts of central ballance as opposed to archaic ways of riding.

But "good luck" getting the park rats to get away from "Duck" stance..

[Jon Dahl]

For those close to Portland, Or., that bookstore had 2-3 more copies and they could ship to you. I was just intrigued by the concepts, looking to find a way to get my wife to try snowboarding again, so I got it to read. After any of you instructors read it, I'd like some feedback on it. Steve, you are fairly close to me, and I may want you to have a beginners session with my wife to ease her into it again, she is afraid of falling and hurting herself again.

[Jerseyboy]

SOFTSNOW...SHOULD BE EASY OUT THERE.....GOOD INSTRUCTOR ONE ON ONE 2 HRS AND THEN 1 OR 2 HRS THE NEXT DAY......AND SHE SHOULD BE RIDING. That was a GOOD INSTRUCTOR/TEACHER with 2-3 seasons min and doesn't have to be the BEST rider.

[carvedog]

SOFTSNOW...SHOULD BE EASY OUT THERE.....GOOD INSTRUCTOR ONE ON ONE 2 HRS AND THEN 1 OR 2 HRS THE NEXT DAY......AND SHE SHOULD BE RIDING. That was a GOOD INSTRUCTOR/TEACHER with 2-3 seasons min and doesn't have to be the BEST rider.

It always should be easy.

What you said is quite generic. What do you mean?

Easy compared to ??? out east?

I am a good instructor. Occasionally I have other instructors refer "problem" riders to me for fixin.

There are some people who will take up to a week to get going if you want truly no-fall learning. The hardest part is dealing with the mental aspect of being scared. Once you give them the skills to stop safely on either edge then you have a good base. This is key for me.

Turning is over rated for beginning level no-fall. It will come with the confidence.

I did have one gal this winter who did double wrist fractures the last time she went in AZ or NM. Hard snow.

So we started verrrrrry slowly. She also works in the film biz and was gong back out on location just after so getting injured was not an option. Lots of slow traverses. Lots of speeding up and slowing down without turning as a goal. Lots of almost turns.

She loved it and by the end of the week was hooked for life.

Go slow, have fun.

[Dave ESPI]

Got it off of amazon.com for $7.00 shipped.

Lost more on there.

[Steve Prokopiw]

We'll put her on my 185 Proton and scare the fear right outta her! Just kidding of course;I would be glad to help your wife conquer her fear.Often,the best thing is just to have our spouses learn from someone other than us. My wife would not let me ride uphill from her for the first two winters we were married for fear of being critiqued :)

[jetkin]

I was looking at this book in a Borders the other day. Scanned through a good deal of it, enjoyed what I read of the text, but was surprised that it really has relatively few photos or illustrations. My impression is that it might be a more valuable book for instructors (like you all), rather than an actual geezer-novice (like me).

While I'm giving my $.02, my fear in snowboarding is always framed by my greater experience skateboarding - - everytime I fall while learning to snowboard, and trying to learn to carve, I shake myself off and think: "Man, how much worse would that've been on asphalt?!"

Maybe I should try and write "No Fall Longboarding"

[Rob Stevens]

It always should be easy.

Turning is over rated for beginning level no-fall. It will come with the confidence.

Go slow, have fun.

No matter what book you teach from, if the teacher sets unrealistic goals, somebody's giong to get hurt, or at least be bummed.

Carvedog is so bang on here. Despite what some think, turning can't be the goal of any first lesson.

Sure, you should have a goal, but more along the lines of "You're going to know how to stand up and slide on this thing and I think you'll have a good time doing it".

Let the student cue you as to when to take the next step. If they're smiling and comfortable with the last thing you showed them, you can move on.

That is "No Fall Snowboarding"... Or at least saving the falls until they're hooked and it's too late.

[b0ardski]

1. faceplants usually gets me when I'm going slow on a rutty cat track in front of a crowd of gapers:eek:

2. brainstemplants haven't happened for a while since I got good at switch:cool:

3.supermans only get me when I'm skiing:biggthump

[carvedog]

.....

Carvedog is so bang on here. Despite what some think, turning can't be the goal of any first lesson.

Sure, you should have a goal, but more along the lines of "You're going to know how to stand up and slide on this thing and I think you'll have a good time doing it"......

Thanks Rob. I think I blew it quite a bit when I first started. I thought the mountain charged an astronomical rate for my time, and that if I didn't teach them to turn by the end of the first day that I was wasting their money.

Glad I got over that. Now I am so much more relaxed about the whole thing that it rubs off on my clients and they really relax and have a good time. And they usually learn better from that state, instead of the "you-have-to-learn-to-turn-or-I-am-a-failure" style of teaching. AASI is to thank for that. The having easily achievable goals for a first lesson thang anyway. The rest I made my own.

[Dave ESPI]

OK, so I've read it. Cover to cover.

It is good, but is not a "complete" learnign manual for how to snowboard. it lacks a lot with information and technique and other "basics" like how to stand up on the snow, and get your self pointed down hill, and how to move around on the snow with the board strapped to your feet. When coupled with the ASSI style of riding/ learning techniques however I can see how it would really work well.

I "learned" the hardest way of all..... just got out there and tried it. over and over and over. I fell. I fell, I fell again and again. Never had a lesson. I figured out what worked realy well, and what was a big failure. From such I learned how to pinpoint issues in riders styles and learning curves and how to teach from many different aspects and how to relate to what people need to do to "not fall". I felt my "pilgramige" and right to call myself a true "Snowboarder" was a journey that needed to be completeted much as those who just 16 years earlier had created Snowboarding in my own backyard (more or less) with trial and error. I needed to go from being a n00b to a (or so I'm told) "damn good rider and superb instructor" in the span of 3 years, and now entering year #14 as a thirty two year old guy.

The book lacks a lot of etikete and safety stuff (look uphill at intersections, don't strap in in the middle of a trail, call your drops; etc),a nd the resort and equipment information was fairly "broad" to say the least, but that is what travel guides and equipment shops are for anyway ;)

I do have to say the focus on streaching and warming up is huge. I was on the mountain one day, and I was getting ready to get in line, and a bunch of the fellow instructors were stading around watching people, and I was streaching out. One of the people said "what are you doing"? I told them I was warming up and streaching... they were amazed and said that in 20 years of being at resorts they had never in their life seen such a thing from a snowboarder.........

I told them, "well I ain't your normal run of the mill snowboarder......... " and I clacked my hardboots together and flipped my board over to reveal the TD2 bindings on it. The Skiers laughed and said "thats awesome".

There were a few other instructors that asked why I streach out also, and I told them its because a "Cold body is a frail body".

Now a few of them warm-up also before hitting it.

I can see the mechanics of how it works, but I think just the concept of "hang in neutral body position" is just a "safe" center of gravity focal point, and takes away from the use of the hips, feet , torsion, flex, and weight driven aspects that are critical to basic and also agressive snowboarding for most people.

The key thing is to understand how the body and C. O. G. works in effective edge and how the leaning and turning are based on pressure, not just the mere lifting and lowering of shoulders.

I think this book fails horribly from not explaining how it EXACTLY works with the board and the weight transferring from shoulders to the board to make it "work".

I was entertained though, and it was a great read :)

A lot of my own personal teaching style is also reflected in his writiing and technique, and it really is key to remain in NNBP (Natural- Neutral- Body Position) as I call it (cool how there is a similarity :o) then to extend and contract from that position as the ride and speed requires with reaction times being affected from such of course.

Then again......... riding a carver, we react a lot faster with edge change, but not all reactions are as fast once "dedicated" to a turn, it gets dicy as to how to remain in NBP and still be a "carver"

[Jon Dahl]

Agree with many of your points. I would agree it is only a supplement to other reading materials, and pro instruction. He does make some good points in the book, though. You and I may need to know how it all works together, many beginners would be overwhelmed with the same amount of info we would digest easily. I think he has a good basic instruction methodology there, tie it together with a good instructor and maybe turn out a newbie snowboarder with a minimum of falls.

[Dave ESPI]

I'm planning HARD to make it to SES this year, if you (jon) are there also, I'd love to see if we can apply this to carving somehow..... I'm always game for "new stuff" and trying techniques and adaptations.

I completely concur as it is not really a "stand alone" or "HOW TO" or "DUMMIES GUIDE" to snowboarding, but more of a thesis paper that was published as a "conceptual alternative" to the ASSI techniques.

In the hands of the right instructores, it is a very usefull "thought-provoking" and bennificial way of thinking about body motion and mechanics of the entire process.

Yeah, I think we "take for granted" the bumps and bruises we took over the years being self taught and learning from trial and error and listening to others and doing seminars........ its what progresses the sport/ hobby and makes for better all around aptmosphere and learning "fun".

KEY WORD is "minimum" of falls. EVERYONE FALLS. I also am a strong believer in teaching HOW to fall properly and minimise potential injury and reducing the S.I.D. factor.

* Sudden Impact Damage