Kent Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Kent,any info on why the ESC keywas removed from the button custom programming? I called off the dogs when I read you went back to XP. Let me know when things change and I'll hook you up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I called off the dogs when I read you went back to XP. Let me know when things change and I'll hook you up... It is not just Vista -- one can not use the latest download of Intelipoint without loosing the ESC key - you need to use Ver 4 which means you need a disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 It is not just Vista -- one can not use the latest download of Intelipoint without loosing the ESC key - you need to use Ver 4 which means you need a disc. I'll check again... In the meantime, I did lead the witness above for several reasons: What would you think of Vista if you didn't know it was Vista? Well...you'll see A LOT of media coming your way in 2008/2009 as it's time the truth starts to come out. Apple...Open Source...etc. Perception is reality and maybe it's time that perception needs to change if reality might already be there. :) http://mojaveexperiment.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursle Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 What would you think of Vista if you didn't know it was Vista? vista what a joke, internet explorer won't open for more than five seconds, no sound, vista won't even close, how much is one license? ubuntu 8.04 on the other hand is serious imho ymmv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I'll check again...In the meantime, I did lead the witness above for several reasons: What would you think of Vista if you didn't know it was Vista? Let me see if I understand you correctly.. Lets say for arguments sake Vista would have been called XP Professional MKII—So when I load my Adobe Acrobat 5.0 it rejects the disc, or when I use some of my flash drives they don’t work, when I use my WD passport it is recognized but you can use it, when I try to load my MS Intellipoint software 4.0 it is rejected, when I try to load several other programs I purchased 2 years ago the disc s are rejected , Hmmm so I do not care what you call it – if my programs and devices do not work it is a POS. How would it go if Toyota brought out a new car to replace the Camry that could no longer fit in a standard garage, the gas filler take rejected all gas pumps unless they are of a new design, any existing air valves could not use a standard air hose, and wrench sizes were changed to a new measurement where metric no longer fit. Oh yea also your favorite cup no longer fits the new cup holder. I guess what I am try to understand is why would $$MS take a standard wonderful successful platform like XP and change the next Platform so much to cause such headaches. :smashfrea:smashfrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Let me see if I understand you correctly.. Lets say for arguments sake Vista would have been called XP Professional MKII—So when I load my Adobe Acrobat 5.0 it rejects the disc, or when I use some of my flash drives they don’t work, when I use my WD passport it is recognized but you can use it, when I try to load my MS Intellipoint software 4.0 it is rejected, when I try to load several other programs I purchased 2 years ago the disc s are rejected , Hmmm so I do not care what you call it – if my programs and devices do not work it is a POS. How would it go if Toyota brought out a new car to replace the Camry that could no longer fit in a standard garage, the gas filler take rejected all gas pumps unless they are of a new design, any existing air valves could not use a standard air hose, and wrench sizes were changed to a new measurement where metric no longer fit. Oh yea also your favorite cup no longer fits the new cup holder. I guess what I am try to understand is why would $$MS take a standard wonderful successful platform like XP and change the next Platform so much to cause such headaches. :smashfrea:smashfrea Okay..and let's say you brought me your computer and I was able to get all your applications working in 15 minutes? Who would be the idiot? You for not knowing how to use the PC or MSFT for not making it work out of the box with the 3.5 million programs that have been developed for the PC, many of which haven't gone through the genuine program? Either way..everybody loses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 vista what a joke, internet explorer won't open for more than five seconds, no sound, vista won't even close, how much is one license?ubuntu 8.04 on the other hand is serious imho ymmv Post of the day!!!! Congrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Okay..and let's say you brought me your computer and I was able to get all your applications working in 15 minutes?Who would be the idiot? You for not knowing how to use the PC or MSFT for not making it work out of the box with the 3.5 million programs that have been developed for the PC, many of which haven't gone through the genuine program? Either way..everybody loses. I of course would be the idiot and of course $$MS would be too... If XP is so easy to use with all the programs and devices I mentioned above but then you offer this $$VISTA crap that takes a person like you to get it all working... WHO is the real Idiot? I forgot -- seems I have to pay extra for a Video viewer in Vista Business -- in XP it works free of any problems.. Also BTW -- All the programs and devices I mention above work flawlessly in XP in the same machine. So it is not a hardware issue -- :smashfrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I of course would be the idiot and of course $$MS would be too... If XP is so easy to use with all the programs and devices I mentioned above but then you offer this $$VISTA crap that takes a person like you to get it all working... WHO is the real Idiot? I forgot -- seems I have to pay extra for a Video viewer in Vista Business -- in XP it works free of any problems..Also BTW -- All the programs and devices I mention above work flawlessly in XP in the same machine. So it is not a hardware issue -- :smashfrea What is interesting about this whole thread is the disconnect b/w reality and perception...along with the finger pointing at MSFT. Vista was build with backward compatibility and a wizard to run in prior modes, including OSs that are off support. Now...if the program doesn't work, it's probably b/c that developer wasn't certified (or skipped it) to begin with. Like as in the case with: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Berlind/?p=316 So, while you stomp your feet and say "it doesn't work" and it's all MSFT's fault, why aren't you contacting the developer? Read the Blogs on wired.com and see why all the Apple folks are now jumping ship. Once you allow X amount of development/partners, you'll ultimately lose control of the supply chain. Glad to hear that XP is working out, but still pains me that you're pointing the finger at the incorrect culprit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 What is interesting about this whole thread is the disconnect b/w reality and perception...along with the finger pointing at MSFT.Vista was build with backward compatibility and a wizard to run in prior modes, including OSs that are off support. Glad to hear that XP is working out, but still pains me that you're pointing the finger at the incorrect culprit. Interesting view: Lets talk the Intellipiont Software which of course is from the developer $$MS.. As soon as I load the disc it is rejected so are you saying i should contact $$MS about this? And also why they took the Escape key away in 6.0? I am sure i will have a warm reception from them. :smashfrea Are you also saying my Thumb drives and WD is at fault when the Vista can not find drivers to let them run? If backward compatibily was there --my External Drives and Acrobat would work just like they do in XP. And my DVD video would also run if backward compatibility was there. :smashfrea:smashfrea:smashfrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Interesting view: Lets talk the Intellipiont Software which of course is from the developer $$MS.. As soon as I load the disc it is rejected so are you saying i should contact $$MS about this? And also why they took the Escape key away in 6.0? I am sure i will have a warm reception from them. :smashfreaAre you also saying my Thumb drives and WD is at fault when the Vista can not find drivers to let them run? If backward compatibily was there --my External Drives and Acrobat would work just like they do in XP. And my DVD video would also run if backward compatibility was there. :smashfrea:smashfrea:smashfrea woah, Al, you just indicated serious problems if a friggin' dvd won't play Kent, even in internal emails Ballmer has been saying microsoft needs to emulate apple in user experience "Apple: In the competition between PCs and Macs, we outsell Apple 30-to-1. But there is no doubt that Apple is thriving. Why? Because they are good at providing an experience that is narrow but complete, while our commitment to choice often comes with some compromises to the end-to-end experience. Today, we’re changing the way we work with hardware vendors to ensure that we can provide complete experiences with absolutely no compromises. We’ll do the same with phones—providing choice as we work to create great end-to-end experiences." as far as the mojave adds go GM, Burton, Nordica, Tampax and just about any company that has a half decent product now as compared to a decade ago. look at who they chose to try it, meatheads that never even had seen the OS. Now had they of put a skin on it and done the same thing with unhappy people that actually used the damn OS before it might mean something. the fact is outside of your MS centric world there are things wrong with MS products. for a home user that paid $200 they should not have to deal with the BS be them power users or not. With mac OS for example you get ilife which is dead simple and does not have any frills but they are all integrated, reliable and easy to use. with MS products it's not the case. you'd think MS would pack in software that does all the same stuff with the OS and for the basic user they would be covered and be happier for it but to get similar functionality you have to pay more or go download a pile of apps and then they are not integrated with each other all that well. and that's fine if you're a windows bad ass but the average joe does not want to fuss around with it. they just want it to work. Apple has issues too but they have done a better job of the end user experience(see the ballmer quote) Linux, get it installed and it just runs happily and it really is free even though you don't think it is. Support for it is not but M$ support is pricey too and the average user is more likely to go to the internet first these days if they even know what linux is. At that point they're already ahead $200 or whatever Ultimate costs. I personally don't think vista is that bad because I know windows well enough and there are a few things I like about it. It also is faster on this machine than xp for whatever reason. Still, NT 4 and 2000 were the only two versions of windows that I felt they did a good job of out of the gate. NT 4 was on this old dell box and it was a fairly solid box in it's time. My experience with vista has been fine other than some older apps don't work even when everyone claims they do. there are other things too that MS does that do not make sense for example all the different versions of it. there should be one and it should not be that expensive and then maybe a corporate version and of course server version that a average consumer should never even have to think about. When you install it should be like say linux where you choose what functionality you want and install. please post these threads of apple people jumping ship, interested. Apple has been gaining market share in the last two years fairly rapidly...... I find it hilarious that MS has to do clean up work with vista and try to trick idiots into using it and have them like the features, with windows 7 on the horizon and that if they deliver what they claim will be a bad ass OS. it will have many of the features of Mac OS, and a interface that allows iphone like touch interface as well. Just like apple is probably integrating into their next OS. WinFS should be able to do some neat stuff in particular in 2003 when it was supposed to be packed in with longhorn but even today it would still be neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted July 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 woah, Al, you just indicated serious problems if a friggin' dvd won't play . I believe it is only in a few versions of Vista - the business one for sure.. they as in $$$$MS purposely left it out.. you need to buy an add on. Whats that about! :smashfrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 I believe it is only in a few versions of Vista - the business one for sure.. they as in $$$$MS purposely left it out.. you need to buy an add on. Whats that about! :smashfrea HOLY MOTHER OF GOD! LOLLOLOLOLOLOL a OS that does not play dvds I did not know this was a issue with the other neutered versions, my only experience was with ultimate. the closest thing to that in the rest of the OS world is with some versions of linux you have to install the dvd player after you install the OS for legal reasons, but it's still usually on the disk. Kent, is this true? Does MS feel that only rich people should be able to play DVDs? MS wonders why people hate them and also why people seek alternatives. MS needs to realize what consumers want and need not what they think they can wring the most money out of people for. I could go on but this is obvious to many of us here and it's not some muckied perception from the uneducated. The truth is if there's a a good MS product I will use it if it works the way I want it to, Windows 7 might but vista is not even compelling enough to keep it installed even in a virtual machine........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Interesting view: Lets talk the Intellipiont Software which of course is from the developer $$MS.. As soon as I load the disc it is rejected so are you saying i should contact $$MS about this? And also why they took the Escape key away in 6.0? I am sure i will have a warm reception from them. :smashfreaAre you also saying my Thumb drives and WD is at fault when the Vista can not find drivers to let them run? If backward compatibily was there --my External Drives and Acrobat would work just like they do in XP. And my DVD video would also run if backward compatibility was there. :smashfrea:smashfrea:smashfrea I'm not sure why you're running drivers from a disc to begin with. The latest media is available for download. As for your Thumb drive, what model? My guess is a quick search would either yield similar problems (and solutions). If not...perhaps you're one of a million people with that problem. Certainly it couldn't be because you're the only person with THAT thumb drive that corrupted it, right? Found the Intellipoint guy...have the formal answer soon. K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted July 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 I'm not sure why you're running drivers from a disc to begin with. The latest media is available for download. As for your Thumb drive, what model? My guess is a quick search would either yield similar problems (and solutions). If not...perhaps you're one of a million people with that problem. Certainly it couldn't be because you're the only person with THAT thumb drive that corrupted it, right? Found the Intellipoint guy...have the formal answer soon. K First answer to you ? is an easy one -- As I mentioned above the 4.0 or so of Intellipoint is the one that has the ESC key-- the latest download from your loving and caring $$MS doesn't -- They took IT out .. That reminds me of a Sienfeld Episode.. :lol: What model Thumb drive -- hmm not sure about half of them I have. Typical -- hardware found --looking for driver , then sorry driver not found CRAP you see only in VISTA., And remember -- it just not the Thumb drives -- it is also my Passport from WD --- it shows up on the device manager but does not show up on "my Computer " cuz VISTA can't find a driver. XP can -- wonderful Fn backward compatibility. An no none of my Thumb drives are corrupted -- they all work great in my Dell 470, Dell M90 and Dell 340 which are all XP. Also -- I bought A Logitech wireless mouse the other day... This one is great -- the programming is not predeterminded like in $$MS mice, where you select the custom key from a list the DEVELOPER determinded you can use, but Logitech just lets you hit the Key on the keyboard you want - including the ESC key. Way to Go Microsoft. :smashfrea:smashfrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 even in internal emails Ballmer has been saying microsoft needs to emulate apple in user experience .....I haven't seen one. Are you aware I used to work for Apple? Read this..it's pretty much spot on from what I'm hearing from old friends. http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/07/has-apple-bitte.html Much of the challenges a 90% market leader has is simply one of scale. So, it's easy to throw rocks at the big guy. Same holds true of discussing DBs between Oracle and MSFT. I'm more than happy to assist in individual problems, but I'd prefer to keep the thread factual rather than simply ancedotal comments. Much of the shift in the tech world has turned to Google and Apple's tactics, not MSFT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 .....I haven't seen one. I pasted it in earlier from this source http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/techtracks/2008/07/ballmer_internal_email_lists_priorities_for_year_i.html I agree with that article in part and you see the same issues every time MS releases a product as well, Vista issues and the famous 360 whith red ring of doom, square trade claimed a 16.4% failure rate of that piece harware.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 I pasted it in earlier from this source http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/techtracks/2008/07/ballmer_internal_email_lists_priorities_for_year_i.htmlI agree with that article in part and you see the same issues every time MS releases a product as well, Vista issues and the famous 360 whith red ring of doom, square trade claimed a 16.4% failure rate of that piece harware.. I believe your word was emulate...which is not the strategy. The key message, "Because they (Apple) are good at providing an experience that is narrow but complete, while our commitment to choice often comes with some compromises to the end-to-end experience" It's not a matter of UI. That's easy. It's about total experience. Say....like in C5 Golfer's case. He's pissed b/c Vista didn't work with his USB drive and his Mouse if screwed with new drivers. Doesn't matter if it's a partner's bits that were to blame...MSFT suffers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted August 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 It's about total experience. Say....like in C5 Golfer's case. He's pissed b/c Vista didn't work with his USB drive and his Mouse if screwed with new drivers. Doesn't matter if it's a partner's bits that were to blame...MSFT suffers. Please tell me where the "Partner" was at fault with my issue(s). It is a $$MS mouse and a flash drive that are very ubitquous. Just who is the "partner" to which you refer Kent?:smashfrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Al, it's clear MS does everything right no matter what. it's not just about UI, that is part of it though. narrow but complete experience is what Ballmer said and that describes apple products as they come fresh out of the box. windows on the other hand offers you plenty after hours of trial and error, downloads and buying other software but even then it does not mesh together as well. Choice means **** all when the OS does not do what it's supposed to, there's no real way around that. backwards compatibility, IMHO had MS just strived for supporting apps from XP people would of bitched but at least maybe they would of done a better job and if people wanted to run anything else they could use virtualization software. either include it with the OS or charge a small fee or in recent MS style including it with some versions of the OS and not others. A big part of why the older apps don't work is that they need higher permissions than they really should have and basically demand to run with whatever root type privileges are called in windows jargon. MS decided to make vista more secure and while doing this shot themselves in the foot by breaking old apps that relied on the sloppy old ways of windows. the "shims" don't always work so you're left with apps that don't work or jam up your system. Probably would work if UAC was turned off many more apps would probably work but fuuuuuck that, that's one of the huge issues with other versions of windows. The real issue is that MS should of come up with a better permissions scheme a decade ago, not two years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 C5 Golfer - still waiting on name of the manufacturer of the Thumb Drive you have. What I'd like to do is buy it from you. You tell me exactly what drive you need...and I'll send it to you. In return, put (3) files on your Thumb Drive - a txt file, a PDF file and a Jpeg file. Anything you want. Send it to me COD or I will send to a box postage paid. I will test it through my lab which contains each version of MSFT OS ever released on Certified Partner Hardware and I will also try it on every major Open Source and Apple Release. If there was a die leakage, I will (I won't...my friend at OnTrack will) crack open the Flash and tell you which cells were effected. I will share the full results on BOL as to the problem. As for the mouse, still digging up all the info. If you want to be an ass about it, I'll just stop working on it. Otherwise, once it gets resolved, I certainly hope you will give credit where it's due. Bob - The column fodder isn't going to change. It's cool you're sticking to what you think is best. We can revisit this thread in 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted August 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 C5 Golfer - still waiting on name of the manufacturer of the Thumb Drive you have. What I'd like to do is buy it from you. You tell me exactly what drive you need...and I'll send it to you. In return, put (3) files on your Thumb Drive - a txt file, a PDF file and a Jpeg file. Anything you want. Send it to me COD or I will send to a box postage paid.I will test it through my lab which contains each version of MSFT OS ever released on Certified Partner Hardware and I will also try it on every major Open Source and Apple Release. If there was a die leakage, I will (I won't...my friend at OnTrack will) crack open the Flash and tell you which cells were effected. I will share the full results on BOL as to the problem. As for the mouse, still digging up all the info. If you want to be an ass about it, I'll just stop working on it. Otherwise, once it gets resolved, I certainly hope you will give credit where it's due. . Not trying to be an Ass Kent - sorry if my frustrations with Vista came across that way to you personally.. was not meant that way. Anyway -- I am very curious to the mouse and ESC key. I have several MS mice. RE: the Flash drive -- I don't think I will send it your way just yet..One of them is a Dell , the other is Lexmark but several other of which I do not know the name.. But it seems I am not the only one. So before we disect my working flash drive which I use everyday - well sometimes everyday.. Please read this web page -- seems many people have the same issue .. now would it not be strange that we all have faulty Drives ???? Allso -- any comments on the DVD player being left out of some Vistas???? Seems rather cheap and underhanded to me.. http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2285429&SiteID=17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boarderboy Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 to buy a new laptop with XP rather than Vista. Went to 4 stores - a very good Mom & Pop and 3 chains. To get any Best Buy computer with XP, you'd have to get the Vista machine, then buy XP at full price, & then pay the Geek Squad $129 to load XP. And if XP caused any problems with the on-board hardware, you'd have to pay them even more to try to fix it. Obviously, you could always wipe the hard drive yourself & then load XP, but that still leaves the unsettling questions about on-board hardware compatibility, etc. So we got a (very) slightly dated Lenovo at a big discount with XP Pro pre-loaded... still more $$, though, than many of the Vista machines that, by spec, would have met our needs. Sheesh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted August 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 to buy a new laptop with XP rather than Vista. Went to 4 stores - a very good Mom & Pop and 3 chains. To get any Best Buy computer with XP, you'd have to get the Vista machine, then buy XP at full price, & then pay the Geek Squad $129 to load XP. And if XP caused any problems with the on-board hardware, you'd have to pay them even more to try to fix it. Obviously, you could always wipe the hard drive yourself & then load XP, but that still leaves the unsettling questions about on-board hardware compatibility, etc. So we got a (very) slightly dated Lenovo at a big discount with XP Pro pre-loaded... still more $$, though, than many of the Vista machines that, by spec, would have met our needs. Sheesh! Sheesh - don't pay Geek Squad -- load it yourself -- it is easy as masturbating.!!! if you get in trouble then call Geek Squad. Sheesh!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted August 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Calling Kent -- any update on any of the above info RE: flash drive issues of others similar to mine, or the esc key or the DVD issue ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.