Vista to XP conversion question

[KingCrimson]

Don't you mean SP3??

There's an SP3??!?

Shows you how long it's been since I've used a Windows box without doing so just for laughs.

Except, I'm using Vista right now, because my endlessly perfect Linux box is down.

Bob, my internet doesn't work wired or not. Everything is set up right, and this computer will connect just fine.

It won't even connect to the router when I type in the router's IP, but the light on the Ethernet port flashes when I'm plugged in. Ndiswrapper's drivers have been FUBAR'd too, so I can't test my wireless connection.

This is since updating to Hardy Heron...

I'll probably just backup my music and pictures and reinstall Heron. My directories had issues anyway.

:(

[bobdea]

laptop?

there was issue with atheros cards for awhile in ubuntu

[KingCrimson]

Eh, it all works now. Heron is real pretty too.

Opacity of all the bars is zero, so everything appears to float on the desktop

And the backgrounds of my system monitors are all matched to the desktop too. (except for the temps, which don't have that option..

[C5 Golfer]

There's an SP3??!?

Shows you how long it's been since I've used a Windows box without doing so just for laughs.

Except, I'm using Vista right now, because my endlessly perfect Linux box is down.

:(

Yes--

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=68c48dad-bc34-40be-8d85-6bb4f56f5110&displaylang=en

[Kent]

Solidworks

Intellipoint drivers that has the “ESC “

A$$ holes –

I cannot use several Thumb drives or a WD Passport drive in my

Solidworks is the partner solution and should be the point of frustration.

I'll check on the ESC issue

A$$ holes - Will you take that back if I fix your button?

Thumb drives - probably a Flash die issue. Fairly typical..not an OS problem.

[Kent]

Please please please don't buy software!

Support free software!

"But mommm I don't want the free software"

"Just install it, it's all the same!"

Yes....free like a puppy!

You took it home only to find out it needed $150 of shots, has a disease which is going to take $1500 surgery, crapped on your carpet for $2500 and then chewed apart your couch for another $2000. Then, it bit yor neighbor and they sued you for $25,000. But....it was free!!!!

No software is free.

No "service" (Google) is free either.

It all comes with a price..so the question is what price do you want to pay in order to use it?

We will revisit this thread in 5 years.....

[Kent]

the choice is use pirate software or pay for it, Adobe has a good record going after little people who sell images after using pirate software so while I still qualify as an educator I'll take the discount

This ranks right up there with stealing Jasey Jay's Coiler and then racing on it.

Pirated software is a crime.

[Gecko]

but Photoshop arrived today and will be installed tonight. While I was waitning I tried out various freeware and demo's of other software. None of them were as intuative to me as photoshop but then I teach photoshop and prefer it to everything else...I can't beleive how much I am looking forward to having photoshop again. I really miss all the tools it provides (even after using the Aperature Demo) ahhh time to work on my portfolio

[Allee]

I love my Mac Book, I'll be installing VMware Fusion so I can run the windows software I need. Vista was the last straw that finally made me switch.

VMWare's cool. I use it at work (I've just learning to be a geek because the new job requires me to be an accountant/geek) and running a Windows 2K3 server on my Vista laptop is a pretty neat trick.

Can you tell I'm a newbie and easily impressed?:)

[C5 Golfer]

Solidworks is the partner solution and should be the point of frustration.

I'll check on the ESC issue

A$$ holes - Will you take that back if I fix your button?

Thumb drives - probably a Flash die issue. Fairly typical..not an OS problem.

Yea - I'll take it back.. I'd sure be curious why it was taken out in 6.1 Ver.

Not a Flash Drive issue -- they all work in an XP machine and the WD Passport does show on the Device manager in Vista when it was on my Dell M90 but does not show up in "My compter" so I can actually use it. Anyway not a problem anymore -- No more Vista - EVER - in my house.:smashfrea

[KingCrimson]

Yes....free like a puppy!

You took it home only to find out it needed $150 of shots, has a disease which is going to take $1500 surgery, crapped on your carpet for $2500 and then chewed apart your couch for another $2000. Then, it bit yor neighbor and they sued you for $25,000. But....it was free!!!!

No software is free.

No "service" (Google) is free either.

It all comes with a price..so the question is what price do you want to pay in order to use it?

We will revisit this thread in 5 years.....

Speaking in terms of monetary value for the end user, it's free.

Neah.

[Kent]

Speaking in terms of monetary value for the end user, it's free.

Neah.

Do you want to talk about hard or soft costs?

I'm not sure you can find an analyist that would recommend open source or Apple OS for a business desktop. Open Office costs roughly 33% more than Office MS for enterprise (i.e. managed) environments. As for OS, Windows offers the enterprise the ability to manage and monitor all systems from a centralized console. Apple does not offer this type of functionality unless you move to a VERY expensive solution that runs on the underlying UNIX code inside the Macintosh. In that case, you are leveraging custom scripting for management.

Web servers....certainly Windows lost market share (but well exceeded the industry growth) several years ago, but has since changed the game.

Don't get me wrong...open source is cool and fun to play with, but not such a good choice to run your business (or personal finances).

[KingCrimson]

Being that I've yet to have a real job, I lack a good deal..make that any experience in business management.

But for piddling around on the computer at home, Open source is good stuff.

Well, it does explain why my dad's Debian box at work is sideways on the floor keeping his trashcan closer to eye level rather than being used..

[Kent]

Being that I've yet to have a real job, I lack a good deal..make that any experience in business management.

But for piddling around on the computer at home, Open source is good stuff.

Well, it does explain why my dad's Debian box at work is sideways on the floor keeping his trashcan closer to eye level rather than being used..

Funny.

Yes...for piddling around at home, it's good stuff.

[bobdea]

for the small office, say 10 machines with basics including mail, hosting a low traffic website, a office suite and web browsing, Linux (say ubuntu or another flavor) or mac OS both offer MUCH more for your money and the kicker is they both are more stable than windows and generally don't require the constant hand holding that windows does. without spending twice as much just for the software you'd have to run open source apps in windows.

Most users needs are fairly simple, Apple has done great at making the home PC more reliable, more simple and packing in the software that you'll use right in with the OS. Linux is stable as hell, you can install linux and set up a box and have it run reliably for years without updating anything even while being connected to the internet. try that with windows unpatched. http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/17/1347214&tid=172

As time goes by Windows is going to become less significant(in the home at least), I think the home PC is going to do the same thing as devices like phones start to take market share from the PC. I know a few people that are using nokia n95s, iphones and crackberries to do the things they used to carry a laptop to do.

[Kent]

for the small office, say 10 machines with basics including mail, hosting a low traffic website, a office suite and web browsing, Linux (say ubuntu or another flavor) or mac OS both offer MUCH more for your money and the kicker is they both are more stable than windows and generally don't require the constant hand holding that windows does. without spending twice as much just for the software you'd have to run open source apps in windows.

Most users needs are fairly simple, Apple has done great at making the home PC more reliable, more simple and packing in the software that you'll use right in with the OS. Linux is stable as hell, you can install linux and set up a box and have it run reliably for years without updating anything even while being connected to the internet. try that with windows unpatched. http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/17/1347214&tid=172

As time goes by Windows is going to become less significant(in the home at least), I think the home PC is going to do the same thing as devices like phones start to take market share from the PC. I know a few people that are using nokia n95s, iphones and crackberries to do the things they used to carry a laptop to do.

Bob - Seriously man...don't do this to yourself. Do you want this to hurt? ;)

Okay..let's agree on the criteria and we'll build it out.

Hardware

Software

Maintenance (Security, admin, maintenance, etc)

We'll also need to consider the soft cost, esp with Linux.

Apple is REALLY happy to say that Jeopard grew market share install by 35% in 6 months, by yet they forget the fact that Vista actually grew market share install by 335% (not kidding). So, when we talk about numbers, we really need to consider the magnitude of having 91% market share...in a time when there are so many other choices and many years after the anti-trust settlement.

Don't get me wrong....Mac OS and Linux are "cool", but they ARE more expensive to purchase and maintain over time. If you want to pay more for the criteria you say above..then fine. But, if you're a cost conscious organization....that's an entirely different arguement.

I work with the largest Mac install in the world (besides Apple, of course)...so have a pretty good understanding of long term cost, esp with hardware repair.

K

[bobdea]

hardware repair?

pretty much all the same stuff these days, not to mention apple is pretty good about using components that are half decent in the first place. Most failures are drives and other pieces that are not mac specific.

Linux is free and pretty much anyone that's able to deal with windows or mac OS can figure most of it out for basic stuff, for people not farming out the local nerd for IT linux is going to be cheaper for obvious reasons.

You're on a gigantic scale and in that case there's some huge differences.

10 machines or so is what I'm talking, just for the OS with windows you're already over a grand, add office and who knows what it will cost or open office and it's no additional cost.

I say this because I've seen it done and setup a couple places like this myself. a fleet of linux boxes do a better job for checking email, and very basic document creation for less. In the long run you have less down time and next to no issues with virii/malware.

Whats windows server go for these days? Apache is still free........

for the basics pretty much all the OS options even the more obscure like solaris will work fine and most require less attention than windows just based on the fact that it has 95% market share and thus is vulnerable to more than 95% of attacks of various types.

[Kent]

hardware repair?

pretty much all the same stuff these days, not to mention apple is pretty good about using components that are half decent in the first place. Most failures are drives and other pieces that are not mac specific.

Linux is free and pretty much anyone that's able to deal with windows or mac OS can figure most of it out for basic stuff, for people not farming out the local nerd for IT linux is going to be cheaper for obvious reasons.

You're on a gigantic scale and in that case there's some huge differences.

10 machines or so is what I'm talking, just for the OS with windows you're already over a grand, add office and who knows what it will cost or open office and it's no additional cost.

I say this because I've seen it done and setup a couple places like this myself. a fleet of linux boxes do a better job for checking email, and very basic document creation for less. In the long run you have less down time and next to no issues with virii/malware.

Whats windows server go for these days? Apache is still free........

for the basics pretty much all the OS options even the more obscure like solaris will work fine and most require less attention than windows just based on the fact that it has 95% market share and thus is vulnerable to more than 95% of attacks of various types.

Yes, Linux would be a great offering for a small business consultant. Tell them it's "free", but then charge for your services. Novell and Red Hat have made an industry out of this model.

It AMAZES me that people still say it's free. It's NOT free.

A few years ago, it was an interestesting conversation. Today...the data is pretty clear and the analysts have spoken. The game is over, Linux is dead.

www.getthefacts.com

How can “free” be this expensive?

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver/compare/windows-server-vs-red-hat-linux.mspx

As for Apple...if you like it / NEED it, and have the extra cash to blow, then buy it.....but don't use the cost argument.

Anyhoo...nuff said. We can talk about bikes or something else.

k

[KingCrimson]

Personally, I have a hard time understanding why Bob's scenario with say, a dozen computers grinding along is non-ideal for Linux.

If you get everyone running Ubuntu (my favorite of all the Linux distro's, just like everyone else :lol:) you can share and use remote desktops, you've got Evolution (Outlook) and all of Open Office's crap, and obviously top notch internet.

Heck, does anyone recall why Linus made Linux?

He wanted to connect to the more powerful computer at his university, but didn't want to leave his dorm room. He wanted to easily network, along with create a philisophical operating system. Pretty much all the maintainers of the various distro's condone nothing but open source. I'd say it held together okay for the 14ish years it's been around.

[Kent]

Personally, I have a hard time understanding why Bob's scenario with say, a dozen computers grinding along is non-ideal for Linux.

http://www.michaelhorowitz.com/Linux.vs.Windows.html

This article couldn't be more slanted towards Ubuntu, but save yourself the time reading and simply scroll to "My 2 Cents".

I'd agree with much of the article...but obviously take issue with a lot of MSFT bashing. There's 10-fold troubles on the Linux side, thus the distros....and sooner or later someone needs to pay the bills.

The whole notion of "free" is laughable...a business' purpose is to MAKE MONEY. You need to pay the bills...thus the distros. There have been many MBA papers written on this model.

And....if the money doesn't make you wonder...then the legal implications (indemnification) will certainly make the point.

http://www.cnet.com/topic-news/indemnification.html

[KingCrimson]

God forbid, I'm showing my age.

I still don't get it.

Say you run a small company that makes oh...niche snowboard bindings. You need to make a model of your product so your CNC machine can mill the baseplates, you use Blender. You need make documentation to ship out with your product, you can use Open Office to type something out. You can make invoices too. You need to make a website? There's a program you can download from a repository and install, and develop the site. Oversees partners that are too expensive to call? There's a native Skype install for Linux.

The OS and all the programs required NO capital to acquire. They all work too.

Am I missing something obvious?

[bobdea]

Kent, the price of the support means nothing when you don't purchase it.

That's the point, with windows if you're dealing with your issues in house it's going to eat up someone's time. Linux boxes once setup just run and run and run. Windows wants updates/patches all the time and you better keep prophylactic software running too.

Mac OS more needy than linux when it comes to updates but also the apps tend to be friendlier. Still requires less massaging than windows though. That's what people fail to realize outside of big companies is that in the small office or home office where people don't want to hire a IT guy and their needs are fairly simple, linux, mac OS and even a couple lesser known Unix flavors do the job and do it well and in the long run do it for less even if it's just because upgrading the OS did not cost whatever MS charges (was it not like $300 for vista with all the features?)

[Kent]

Kent, the price of the support means nothing when you don't purchase it.

That's the point, with windows if you're dealing with your issues in house it's going to eat up someone's time. Linux boxes once setup just run and run and run. Windows wants updates/patches all the time and you better keep prophylactic software running too.

Mac OS more needy than linux when it comes to updates but also the apps tend to be friendlier. Still requires less massaging than windows though. That's what people fail to realize outside of big companies is that in the small office or home office where people don't want to hire a IT guy and their needs are fairly simple, linux, mac OS and even a couple lesser known Unix flavors do the job and do it well and in the long run do it for less even if it's just because upgrading the OS did not cost whatever MS charges (was it not like $300 for vista with all the features?)

You're still talking in fuzzy-vague phrases and anecodal comments....much of which are kinda true (admittely). However, in the real world...what really matters is the bottom line. The bottom line is dollars-in need to be more than dollars-out. That's the reality of running a business.

Now...if you.....say, make snowboard bindings AND have competancy to work on your IT system, then perhaps you'll either work late or shift working hours to something non-revenue generating. But, each minute your devote to operations is a minute loss generating revenue. Doesn't take a small business consultant to tell you than most failed businesses are due to working on non-revenue projects.

In that category, Linux loses. Seriously. The fact are out there.

As in my first post...it's "Free Like A Puppy".

[Kent]

God forbid, I'm showing my age.

I still don't get it.

Say you run a small company that makes oh...niche snowboard bindings. You need to make a model of your product so your CNC machine can mill the baseplates, you use Blender. You need make documentation to ship out with your product, you can use Open Office to type something out. You can make invoices too. You need to make a website? There's a program you can download from a repository and install, and develop the site. Oversees partners that are too expensive to call? There's a native Skype install for Linux.

The OS and all the programs required NO capital to acquire. They all work too.

Am I missing something obvious?

Everything has a cost....

Ex: Sure...you can use Skype rather than have a phone line, but is the cost of having increased bandwidth worth it? You need to balance cost.

Ex 2: In the above example, what if you wanted to dial 911? I've never had to call 911, but is it worth $20/month to be able to connect with someone who knows where to find you?

I could go on forever. In the grand scheme of running a business, you focus on what is going to generate revenue, lower cost and keep service high.

If you go back to the open source business model....you'll note that it's built from the bottom-up rather than top-down.

Don't get me wrong....being a techie, it's "cool stuff", but that isn't what pays the bills.

[C5 Golfer]

Solidworks is the partner solution and should be the point of frustration.

I'll check on the ESC issue

A$$ holes - Will you take that back if I fix your button?

Thumb drives - probably a Flash die issue. Fairly typical..not an OS problem.

Kent,

any info on why the ESC keywas removed from the button custom programming?